Episode 49. Traveling Spirit

[00:00:03] and I heard the first off said, call out. And then the first off said, I'm trying to radio and he screams, holy shit, the goat man. And I mean, it just like everything went quiet. And I like, I can hear the ringing in my ears.

[00:00:23] I can feel my heart raised. So I hit my light and I want to line up there. I've been told by some old people, elders. You grab a minute, hold them in. You don't own them but you hold them there until daylight.

[00:00:42] If we can hold them or pull it in, pull them into the light. It destroys anything they have. Any kind of power or anything that we're doing. They will destroy them. This guy was at bouncing. You know, like how he sees people coming in ready to jake.

[00:01:02] You know how they kind of bounce? Yeah, he was like that way. He was just kind of bouncing and he was just kind of going back and forth and one foot through the other. And he just kind of turns sideways and he turned back over because anyway.

[00:01:15] And he took off, holy shitty junk in Wanda. Welcome back everyone. He looks into Lodge Tales and I'm your host, Rod Williamson. So in this episode, we have our first guest from the, one of the sutrides Dakota.

[00:01:36] And we talk a lot about, toward the end it's a lot about spirituality and the contrasts between different ways and the native way in general. In this episode, she also talks about a spirit that calls her name. Another story about this white figure that was like featureless.

[00:02:06] I guess they kind of scared them really bad when they were at a ceremony. They've seen it walk by. A story about her dad who were a spirit kind of breathed down his neck. Another one where spirit grabs her head.

[00:02:24] And we kind of talked a little about holy men. This haunted elevator at Flanger Indian School. And this really creepy spirit at Flanger, where it's a girl spirit but it walks weird like on its elbows and stuff. It's a kind of a creepy image.

[00:02:45] I tell her a story about this alcohol spirit in Chimau. Then we talk about these tall spirits. She also shares how she got her name.

[00:02:55] And then, like I said, we talk a lot about spirituality toward the end of it and kind of swap stories about spirituality in general. I also wanted to start this episode off by answering a few questions off of Spotify. And it is just responding to some comments.

[00:03:18] So, one of the comments comes from Iron Horse. And he or she was worried about kind of hesitant to listen to the podcast because they realize that sometimes when you're telling ghost stories or even listening, that things can manifest.

[00:03:42] You can call those spirits back to you if they've been around you and they went away or calling them to yourself like, I guess, new spirits, calling them to you. And Iron Horse, you're not wrong. You're really not, you gotta be careful with a lot of this stuff.

[00:04:03] So, I've mentioned this before but I'm going to mention it again. How we do it, how I do it is I'm always, you know, I'll smudge after I hear a lot of these stories or I'm talking about a lot of these stories.

[00:04:19] I'll say a quick prayer before I do it asking for protection, asking for the spirits, take pity on me so that they don't come in bother us. And I have barriers up around my house.

[00:04:33] It's not uncommon that I pray for the guests or protection as well, so that nothing happens to them. And one of the people I met on TikTok started listening to the podcast and it happened to her. She started getting spooked and stuff.

[00:04:53] That is a definite concern and I wouldn't blame anybody for not wanting to listen to the show over that.

[00:05:00] But I also need to state that I kind of take precautions about that and I am aware of that, but it's also like Iron Horse said to in the comment, It's important to save stories and to preserve some of these stories. That's the other avenue as well.

[00:05:21] And let's see if moving on, singhound. He asks, when I went to Chimala and didn't go, I went to Chimala from, that's the 91 to 95. Yeah, a little late 91. No, early 92 to 95 because it was the second semester of my freshman year and then I graduated there.

[00:05:49] And he asked if I knew Mr Scott, I didn't know when Mr Scott when I was there. Nightmare walking is always commenting in the Spotify comments saying, she's really happy that I've created this podcast because it helps her to reconnect with her.

[00:06:07] And you know, part of this part of my thinking going into this is that as well.

[00:06:14] Some of us are trying to get back, some of us natives are trying to get back to our old ways and some just haven't learned it because they've been living off the res too long.

[00:06:28] And for those of us that have where we're really lucky that we're raised around it. And I see that and I understand that and I recognize that. You know, there's a way to approach reconnecting with your old ways, your traditional ways and it's all about respect and humility.

[00:06:45] You never act to pushy or disrespectful or you know, you don't really ask too many crying questions because a lot of the stuff, the medicine people can't really talk about.

[00:07:00] And so you just kind of, you know, be really respectful and mind how you conduct yourself around it and just I would say my aunt used to tell me when I'm in a new environment.

[00:07:16] I don't really know how to conduct myself. She's always say just follow the crowd, just do it at other people are doing and you'll eventually find where you fit in. So that's what I would suggest. And she also commented that I got sponsors.

[00:07:32] Yeah, I opted into the ad platform on red circles so that helps, you know, generate a little bit of money to pay for these services and stuff.

[00:07:44] It's really not something that's, you know, I never did plan on getting rich off of doing something like this because it's more of a hobby of mine and it's more of something I just take an interest in and I'm actually doing it.

[00:08:00] You know, I have some free time after work sometimes, you know, it's really a busy schedule I have is a subcontractor but when I do get that time and I'm not too tired and I don't fall asleep in the evening.

[00:08:11] I started working on the podcast so that's why it's kind of been hit or miss lately and for that I apologize everyone. So without any more messing around, let's get read into the show.

[00:08:29] Hi, my name is Nakhil Moni. I'm from the the day with Hanta walk by you Pakistan tribe from Flanjee South Dakota and I was raised very traditionally and like culturally really into that stuff.

[00:08:43] I'm my father and mother. Like we were going to sweat since ceremonies every summer and like these are at the winter too and then we Sundance to every summer and cord pipestone.

[00:08:56] Every summer so I was really like engaged in that type of life and so like I did hear a lot of stories and. The only two specific examples, I know like.

[00:09:13] Two specific things that happens to me that I can't really explain because you know being raised in like a Christian world I was still had like.

[00:09:23] Skip to this is them because when I first went to school was like kids were telling like no that didn't happen so I'm just like okay.

[00:09:33] But one example happened when I was I was a kid was about like seven years old and my brother told me to go downstairs and grab his earrings.

[00:09:46] And I went downstairs and we used to have a three-legged pot that lived like in the basement on my brother's bottom of his bunk bed. And I got distracted like cut a link him and stuff and out of nowhere in the corner of the like the room.

[00:10:05] A woman's voice like out of nowhere said okay Noggy time to go to sleep.

[00:10:11] And when she said that the first time I couldn't believe my ears because it was only me and my brother home and my brother has a really deep voice and he couldn't like make a noise like that. And she says it again.

[00:10:27] Like calls out my names specifically and that's a me being a little kid in reacting to that. And immediately just scream shut the hell up and just start crying and falling and running up the stairs. But yeah I really I told a Noggy to shut up.

[00:10:47] Oh, but the second time that's it's really edge into my memory like I can specifically see it like right now as I'm talking about it.

[00:11:01] But we went to one of big go for a sweat and this wet was too small for the children to fit so like only adults were sweating that night.

[00:11:13] And me and my it was me my elder sister my elder sister on my two other sisters and then my first cousins so they're my sister's team. We're all we're all chilling in my my doings car.

[00:11:32] And I'm sitting in between the legs of my elder sister in the back seat so I'm sitting on the floor and we're all chilling in like the prayer is going on in the background so you can hear the sweat like the music is coming like often in distance so that like kind of makes it kind of creepier.

[00:11:52] Because around the middle of nowhere and it's like pitch black and it's just like the small like from the like the light is going to like the distant fire.

[00:12:03] And I was like about a fall asleep at then one second everybody in the car just start screaming just starts like. And on I like I look up out the window and I see a white figure passed by the window.

[00:12:22] And it was only for a split second though because as seen as I seen the figure my sister grabbed my head and like jammed my head like further down to the floor so I wouldn't see it.

[00:12:34] But that split second that I did see that G.T. like it was it was scary because it was just a pale figure with no features it was just white. Like humanoid though.

[00:12:51] Yeah it was humanoid but I just remember like it had like no hair it was just a white figure. Like it was it was kind of like an outline but it was it had the features of a human.

[00:13:08] And everybody in there seen it obviously and that's what made them all scream. And then as soon as as soon as that happened we also praying and like crying for like it to leave us alone and then it finally like left.

[00:13:23] But that was the longest like wait after like to give me like the sweat done and over with. Yeah. Well that's crazy because sometimes you know those those bad ones they don't want you to be around you know trying to do good.

[00:13:40] They want to try to interrupt it or you know stuff like that they don't like that and sometimes those good ones they are scary. Yeah yeah. My my dad like the stories you would tell me like can I like tell other people stories? Yeah.

[00:13:58] Um my dad also told this story of one time when he was 18 and he was living in C. City.

[00:14:06] He was staying in C. He was staying in an attic and he was laying in his bed and he was he was facing the wall so his back was facing the room.

[00:14:18] And then he just starts like getting this creepy feeling like his hair stands up in the back of his neck and then he hears like dumping like getting closer and closer to him.

[00:14:30] And he like freezes you know like when you get really scared you just like freeze yeah. He he is like okay I'm not gonna look at it I'm not gonna like I don't want to see it.

[00:14:44] I know it's scary like I can feel that it's really scary and then he it kept getting closer to him and then finally he felt like it's breath like on like the back of his like neck.

[00:14:56] And then that's when he started like praying and like for it to go away like I'm scared like please leave me alone

[00:15:02] And then he went to ceremony like the the weak following and he asked the medicine man like what that thing was and then the medicine man was all like you don't want to know it was

[00:15:16] It was like it was really scary like you don't want to know it was really good that he didn't look at it. So where where did that happen? Ah CC Iowa.

[00:15:28] Geez yeah that's weird I mean what did he think it was but what was his gut feeling about it? His gut feeling was it was like a spirit like a bad spirit.

[00:15:45] Hmm yeah we grew up in a haunted house basically and I don't know what else to call it but so many spirits in that house things like that would happen there too. Things coming up behind you are peaking at you in the house and we and.

[00:16:01] Yeah yeah we would throw ceremonies in the basement of our house. And like some cool like cool stuff would happen.

[00:16:13] Like one time this is also happened when I was really young too because my father passed away when I was 15 and like we kind of all stopped doing stuff like that after he did that. Yeah.

[00:16:25] But I remember we were having ceremony and the medicine man brought in a spirit to like talk to not talk oh yeah talk to me my sister and my dad and. You know at the time it was still like you know skepticism so like I'm just like.

[00:16:47] Still like in the back of my like did this happen like but like it did happen like I specifically remembered it but the spirit like came up to me and.

[00:16:59] You know like if you don't understand that photo you can't understand the spirits like it's like sounds like a raspy like how awesome. And so like I heard that sound and it grabbed my head and. It's hand was so big that like his like um.

[00:17:24] His his the bottom of his hand like touched like my nose and his fingers like touched the back of my head like it engulfed like most of my head. Yeah.

[00:17:38] I don't remember what that ceremony was for but it was just like that memory of that spirit doing that. What kind of ceremony was it if you don't mind me asking because I don't really know a lot about the su way.

[00:17:54] Well my my father was passing away from cancer and I remember we were just doing like a lot of ceremonies around that time for just like. A lot of like specifically for that but just like just in general just healing. Oh doctor. Yeah doctor.

[00:18:18] Yeah some of them spirits are. They're really powerful I mean because I had that too. I had skepticism when I was younger because you know. You know how we say we're not an eightly born with all of this belief in this.

[00:18:34] Knowledge you know we're taught my parents grandparents and whoever. You know we're kind of raised that way but up to a certain point you'll always have some doubt and tell something happens and. It's exactly what happened to me too I was at a ceremony called a nightlog and.

[00:18:52] That rattle one week through the wall and hit my elbow couple times I was scared because it there was no way that could happen.

[00:18:59] I was like in a fourth grade and there was just no way for that there was impossible but my dad told me I don't don't worry about it. It's going to be okay it's alright and.

[00:19:11] Sure enough you know that's just their way of blessing you and our way when the spirits come up. They'll take those rattles into the using the bless you to tap you with them.

[00:19:21] But as that small it's good to heck out of me though and I can't know what to think let's all say in some of them good ones they scary too because. Yeah I think it's funny you're not ready for it too. Yeah yeah they think it's funny.

[00:19:36] It's funny that you say that my dad. I don't know. Oh, good. Sorry. I remember one time we were in sweat and the spirit talked to the menace and man and my sister had gauges at the time.

[00:19:52] You know like big holes in the years and the spirits are making fun of her she said what they said wow I wish I could have big holes in my ears like that so I can hear better.

[00:20:03] But like in your guys is like when you guys go to sweat. So when we go we'd not allow to bring like you know jewelry or anything like that and that's a that was your mind in the afar you guys supposed to take all that stuff off too.

[00:20:22] Yeah yeah you're supposed to take jewelry. The thing that day scared us with was like the the spirits are going to come in and rip that off. Yeah. Have jewelry.

[00:20:34] Yeah that's what we're told to the rip it out or sometimes I'll just take it and you'll never you'll never get it back you know. Yeah like rip it out of your ears. Any sort of piercing this repair it out of their desserts. That's odd.

[00:20:53] I mean when the have you ever heard a chameleon in school? Yes. Yeah it's over in Oregon. I went to high school there.

[00:21:06] See I went like a half the semester on my resin then I went to the end in school in Oregon and there was a she went there. Yeah.

[00:21:16] It was pretty fun when I went that's where I kind of learned a little bit about the Sue because we used to sweat with her.

[00:21:24] I can't remember I want to say his is he will glow like a little something like that but he was a pretty powerful guy too. He had he used to take care of the dorms for us and chase all those bad ones out of there.

[00:21:38] But yeah he had some pretty interesting stories about when he would cleanse off those dorms and you know he could see kids that were walking around and they were drinking when you're not supposed to.

[00:21:51] And you know they sort of been in the early 90s and he could just see those things around those kids and he'd go to the dorms and say hey breath lies these guys they're out and about doing stuff they're supposed to sure enough.

[00:22:05] They would get caught that's when he would be there on the weekends.

[00:22:09] He used to show up sometimes in walk around really a funny guy to be around like happy and like to joke so he always had like this little little following a student so I would hang out with him when you'd be around campus.

[00:22:22] Yeah he was in the real deal. I loved these like that I went to the flangey boarding school. That was a pretty scary place. Yeah so much chamala. Yeah. Like all the boarding schools are pretty scary. Oh my sister did see like a spirit in the elevator.

[00:22:46] Can that elevator? Yeah because there's um it was just well known that if you went inside of that elevator that sometimes it'll just drop to the basement and like we get you like stuck there.

[00:22:59] And if you look into the mirror that's in the elevator, you'd see like a girl behind you. And um my sister she didn't get stuck in that elevator but she like looked into the mirror and she seen that girl behind her.

[00:23:15] And you know what that you've I take you wrote on that elevator two before? I only wrote it once in my life. Is there any other things that happened that flanger? There's this there's hope it just like stories attached to dorm rooms like in one specific dorm room.

[00:23:39] There is a there's a girl that walks on her elbows and like upside down like on her knees because the story goes that they were there was a girl's trying to throw sleep over but

[00:23:57] They snuck that girl in but a major in wasn't making her rounds to go check on the girls so the girl stuck stuff that girl that wasn't supposed to be there into a suitcase and sat on it.

[00:24:13] Underneath the bed and then the nation came in and like was talking to the girls and like she was like talking to her for a fat minute.

[00:24:21] And the girl that dies and like her body is like all like grow test lead just figured because it's like she had to stay in that state for a minute.

[00:24:31] And I tried to once I tried to ask the girls who are staying in that dorm room if I can go ghost hunting in that dorm room but they just laughed at everything. Did they ever see like that spirit? My sister did my older sister Thresa.

[00:24:48] What did what did they do? She might my older sister she's really strong like emotionally really strong. So like it didn't face her. She just she like seen it and she's like yeah like it.

[00:25:06] She was there with me in the room and I look that that didn't scare you. Yeah and tomorrow there was a lot of things that happened in there. There was a sky.

[00:25:20] Okay so he had he was a matron and he had he had given up drinking for I mean just Reese what I say about a year or two he was sober he had just recently given it up.

[00:25:34] But he was a matron kind of an older guy too and he started working there. One of my friends was was really good friends with him. One night he was telling him he says you know he says not long ago he says I almost fell off.

[00:25:51] He said I was I was in here one night and I just did my rounds and I was just sitting in his office and we can sure your kids are alright and I just got to stop in my mind I'm gonna go.

[00:26:04] I'm gonna go tie one on after this you know I'm gonna go buy some alcohol and sit there and drink it after I get off work.

[00:26:12] So he was thinking so anyways he was getting up to do his rounds again after some time and downstairs it's two levels in this one door and he's going downstairs and there's like this old fireplace but it's not used like they don't use the fireplace but it's still there.

[00:26:30] Anyway he's walking by that and he looks up top where his offices there's like this handrail and like a little balcony kind of thing up there and he sees this little person.

[00:26:41] It's like like this little man like a little old man and he was like a little people yeah but this one jumped onto that.

[00:26:52] Well jumped off of that balcony kind of onto that fireplace and he was looking at that nature and he was saying oh you know he's just laughing and happy he says.

[00:27:03] I'm really glad he says I I missed you I'm glad that you're coming back and you know that really kind of like upset the matron.

[00:27:15] He just kept walking around that thing in that little person jumped down on the ground and was just smiling bigad and he said it look like a little old man.

[00:27:26] I don't know I don't just a little man but he walks up the stairs and leaves it down there and it doesn't come back around that I remember in the story but.

[00:27:41] So he doesn't go and get alcohol instead he goes to that guy I was telling you about.

[00:27:47] Who used to go and sweat since the fact that he cleans out the dorms he went to him because he used to sweat like every every weekend or every other weekend if not every weekend and.

[00:27:59] I guess he showed up down there and he told him he says yeah I see that this thing he says oh. He says that's one of those alcohol spirits he says um.

[00:28:10] It was happy that she were going to come back to them he says that that's what that was was on those alcohol spirits and. I don't know I mean it looked like a little person that's what he said so.

[00:28:24] I mean I think those alcohol spirits can be any shape not just one you know they can look like shadows. They can look like those little people hectic and even look like like you are I just yeah not I think alcohol.

[00:28:40] It's like a dangerous like a bad spirit and it allows bad spirits to attach you because like one of the main things that. It's not taught at schools is that to make indigenous people sign they would get them really drunk.

[00:29:02] And so they would sign it like un-nownly like what they're signing and then in the 1900s when. You Jen it started and they started calling our spirit spiritual beliefs schizophrenia. You know like personality disorders like making us call in as crazy and stuff yeah.

[00:29:25] In the in Santa silence they would prescribe alcohol like whiskey to like the natives that were forced to be there. There's a in a Santa silence just like 30 miles of like sort of like where I grew up and like I just like heard stories.

[00:29:47] Like how scary it is over there because the whole time it was ran very over 300 people were forced to like forcibly sent there. And a 150 one people died so there's a 50% mortality rate just in that a Santa silence alone. Okay what year was that do you think.

[00:30:09] The the operations of that in Santa silence was to the 1900s and 1930s. And those things must have happened all over the place not just around there huh. There's a there's a lot of. And they would call it.

[00:30:28] They would even advertise these as Santa silence as like saying like come see the crazy Indians because they would do their spiritual practices like out in the front lawn. And then like they would advertise to like white people say like look at these crazy Indians.

[00:30:48] That's that is that building still up that when you're talking about the building is still up and I do want to like go there. What would you do like because I never.

[00:31:06] I never really spoke to any ghost hunters yet I know what they do but like what would you think tent be to go there. I would love because like my brother tried to do that one time was a ghost month.

[00:31:23] But I more like I just want to do like a fun thing. I see what you say but also go to like indigenous like ghost places to tell of the history and like the stories and sometimes like the egregious utility acts that were like put on against us.

[00:31:46] Yeah. Wow. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to do that. Yeah. There's, do you, did you ever hear about the Dakota 38? No, I have it. Mm-hmm. Well, the Dakota 38 is the largest mass execution in the United States government ever did in its history.

[00:32:07] I'm descended from two of those people that were hung. Like that's my tribe. That's my tribe. And there's a, there's a ride every year to like celebrate. That's celebrate. Not only. Yeah, honor. Yeah.

[00:32:30] But the place itself like when you get onto that piece of land that they were murdered on it's just like the energy. Let's be really heavy there. Yeah.

[00:32:46] Now back home in Browning here's this place called Ghost Ridge and you know, they were supposed to, in order for them to sign over land, the treaty said that they were going to provide food.

[00:33:02] You know, because of Buffalo, we're all gone by then and they were going to provide food. Rashing the, the seller star? Yeah. Yeah, they, they all, it was called starvation winter and our tribe.

[00:33:16] After that winter there was only about, geez, about 2000, roughly 2000 black fleet left total out of the three, the three bands that make up the Confederacy. And there was about maybe 1500, 1400 here and the other two bands in Canada. There was the remainder of that left up there.

[00:33:40] It was, it was really about time but all along that ridge is where they kind of buried everybody up there and it sits a pretty spooky place. There's a lot of stories around that place, you know, people see a lot of spirits around that area.

[00:33:58] So I mean, I don't know, I've ever quite a few like one with this person with a big long face. You don't like that mask, that scream mask. Can I have like a really long face like that would be walking?

[00:34:13] Look like somebody they know and they stopped to say, hey, jumping will give you ride it's at night and I'll look at them and get that big long face and he just gets scared and drive off.

[00:34:24] You know, it's one of the stories and I mean, there are people that live by it too. That live like right there underneath it.

[00:34:34] And I always wonder if they have more stories about that place but yeah, we have something similar like that back home basically you know, they were murdered too.

[00:34:45] I mean, it was so bad that they were eating, they were boiling their leather shoes and eating the leather, you know? It was really, really bad.

[00:34:55] Okay, like when you mentioned that like tall, lengthy guy, it just felt like reminded me there was like spirits like in our like my childhood house growing up. I've personally never seen this dude but my, my, I have I have also eight siblings.

[00:35:13] But like four of them have seen this man and he's always like in the same spot like sometimes but like he's in the corner and he's and he's so tall that his like lower back, oh no, it was like upper back is touching the ceiling.

[00:35:29] So like he's bent over like in the corner just like looking at like the people who see him. Does he have a hat on? Did they mention anything like that? I think my elder brother mentioned like something with a hat.

[00:35:49] Yeah, because my you saying that reminds me of something my daughter when we stayed let's see how Jesus man was like the house before this house.

[00:36:01] Like, for house is like, that makes sense my daughter's 16 and in this one that we stayed in when she was just a little girl like the real small about, oh four maybe.

[00:36:16] Yeah, about four five. She seen something just like that but he had hat on. He was so tall that like when he would look into bedrooms he'd have to kind of like bend way down but his, you know, he was so tall that he had to bend over and those hallways.

[00:36:33] And he would peek into her room like that. That's how he would look at her. She told me that once she said she calls it a hat man. That's creepy. They have it. That's scary. Yeah. Yeah, but I also want to explain my name. Oh yeah, good.

[00:36:56] So my name is Nachyo money and I got that from, oh it means traveling spirit. And I got that from my dad when I was 10 because I have you ever heard of the ceremony at home, bless you? No, I haven't.

[00:37:15] Like going up on the hill or like why people say it's calling a vision quiz. Oh yeah, fast. Yeah. Yeah. So my father goes on the hill for my tenth birthday.

[00:37:30] And I remember like that whole time I was just really praying for him because I've seen my older brothers, you know, do you home, bless you? But like I was like this is my dad, yeah.

[00:37:44] And so I was like praying for him like most of the night and then when he came down from the hill, he told me he told me that he heard me. And at the time I couldn't say my arse.

[00:37:56] So like out in the distance he said he heard me like say be-baves. Like instead of like saying be brave I said it was like saying be-baves. Yeah. And so he named me traveling spirit because he told me that I could come see him after he passed.

[00:38:18] Like I'm the only one out of the siblings. Yeah. And I remember like the day we buried him, I was like I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna go and see him.

[00:38:34] And then so I laid down in my bed and he told me like the way it just like relax yourself and just like really focus and just like, you know, like basically meditate into like this spirit world I guess.

[00:38:48] And I sat there and I tried to do it. But then my door opened and I got really scared. And so like I was like I know like I could do it because that's obviously a sign but like knowing that's really scary.

[00:39:13] Yeah, I mean you gotta be careful when you're doing that. Any sort of meditating like that. Do we-you gotta call in your helpers and ask them to protect you as the creator. You know, they protect me all I'm doing and then you do it.

[00:39:29] You know, but you gotta call in to protecters first. What do we want to call them? Your helpers or whatever, but even your ancestors you just ask them for protection to help you while you're doing something like that. Because what happens is you're open.

[00:39:51] You'll open yourself up and so I'm gonna attach to you. And it, you know, not necessarily will be a good thing you just take that chance. So yeah, remember to pray for protection. This is a simple quick prayer for protection.

[00:40:04] You know, it's really not that deep but just a quick prayer. Yeah. Yeah, not help. But that was when I was like 15 and I have- and I'm 22 now.

[00:40:14] And I'm just actually now just getting back into this life because the death of my father that really hit me hard. Yeah. And it took me off the path. But, um, my sister passed away and then that got me into college. And I went to a native college.

[00:40:37] And that really just like opened my eyes back to like the red road. Yeah. So like, I'm really just like getting back into it. That's good. He's. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:51] Yeah, because a lot of times people, um, they'll be trying to reconnect these ones that have never even been raised around it whatsoever. But the ones of us that have been raised around it were really lucky.

[00:41:06] And a lot of times we don't realize how lucky we are to have been raised around it. No, I- I've just now realized how lucky I was. Oh, um, to have this childhood? Mm-hmm.

[00:41:18] Like especially with like the interconnected, like with spirits and like knowing that they're out there and they're like their real. Um, and, and, and also like I really took, I really took like the spiritual stuff, like the traditional stuff that my father had for granted.

[00:41:37] Like the rattles, the drums, the, the flutes. You know, like this happened to help you with these ceremonies. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big part of it all. Those songs and you know a lot of times, and some fact that they're actually taught to those people by the spirits.

[00:41:56] The spirits will give you a song for depending on which ceremony you're doing. Like say you're doctoring the spirits that allow you to doctor their ones that teach you those songs. Or, or if you had some of that doctoring like passed on to you like the right's transfer.

[00:42:15] Does that what you say it? If you had right's transfer to you to use that medicine, well, still even though you were taught that song by somebody who was passing on that medicine, they were, they,

[00:42:26] If not them, the people that passed it to them were taught by spirits. That's where it comes from. Those songs they come from of spirits. I, I really, yeah. And also the songs that we've seen were told to like our ancestors by like ancient spirits.

[00:42:48] Like it's in the name like Wacan, Tanka that, like why people just diluted it to say like Holy Spirit. But no, it's old and ancient, holy one. That's, that's like what it means. Like a big, old and ancient.

[00:43:03] And the songs that we've seen now are like, have been song for like tens and thousands of years. Yeah. The same lyrics. Yep. That's how I understand it with a lot of those bundles because some of them are really old. Like really, really old. Like we have one.

[00:43:25] It's so old that the original, I guess the original one had a woolly mammoth tusking it to. That was part of it because each animal gave something to that bundle. And at the time it was even a woolly mammoth that gave to it. That was that old.

[00:43:43] Um, there. Did you hear like the, how we got the pipe like some buffalo calf women? You know, my aunt was part, uh, part, how did I say it? I think she, she partaked with a lot of ceremonies down there.

[00:44:01] I've heard some of it but I mean, I've heard that name. I just don't really know. But I'd love to hear it. Um, it said that she was the one that brought civilization to us. Like she was among who told us these ceremonies.

[00:44:18] Like she was like, oh, like a really powerful spirit. And she was on the brat the pipe to us and told us that the ceremonies to like the coming of age ceremony. The like, just like, what would your ceremonies to treat? Like elders and babies?

[00:44:37] Like how they're supposed to be treated and stuff. And the original buffalo calf pipe is said to be in chief little dogs possession. Oh. And my, my brother was actually in the presence of the pipe. They didn't unveil it because it's like so sacred.

[00:44:59] But like they were just in the presence of it. Yeah, there's a type, um, oh, she's like, I'm really the name of it and like, try it but I think it's called a long time long time medicine pipe. It's so old.

[00:45:14] I mean, it's so old that they don't even know the origin of it. It's that old. It, I don't know but they still have it. And my, my buddy was just talking to me about it. He said he's seen it too.

[00:45:29] And that old pipe, I got guests that's really big that stone to its big. So it's not like kind of like kind of ones are today. Like for a bigger, bigger man. No, no, they were just made big like a big bolt. You know, it was big.

[00:45:46] That's the, if I remember right, that's the deal with saying about that one. He says yeah, what was big? Is that big old, you know, stone to it? Was it big one? Um, do you like, uh, so Juniper's are made from pipe stone?

[00:46:03] And that's the red stone that was, that my family has Cory. Yeah. It, it's located in Pipe Stone, Minnesota and there's also a, a Pipe Stone Cory in Ohio, I believe, for somewhere around there. And, um, these pipe stones, these pipes are actually found like all over America.

[00:46:30] And even down south, like South America. And they originate from these pipes stone Cory's. And these, these Cory's were like sacred and the, the Dakota was in charge, or in control of the pipe stone. Minnesota, Cory.

[00:46:49] But basically every single indigenous tribe made a sacred pilgrimage to this place. And there was no blood shed spilt, like on this land. It was like that sacred, like everyone is came here to Cory and get their sacred stone and like get their, like,

[00:47:09] make their pipe and then leave. That's pretty cool. I mean, my, my friend, uh, he makes pipes and he was given the rights by an old holy man to a spiritual leader. Um, yeah, he gave him those rights and, and he still makes them to this day.

[00:47:30] But I remember when I first heard about pipes, he said that too. He says, yeah, that only places in Minnesota to get that red, red pipes stone. Yeah, the Cory, like the other Cory's that have like quote unquote pipes stone. That type of pipes stone is really hard.

[00:47:51] Oh. Like it's harder than the pipes stone in Minnesota. So like the special like pipes stone you'd find it in Minnesota, like the real one. Yeah. Yeah, we're sharing more about pipes. I mean, I've, I've asked my friend about them.

[00:48:13] But I still feel like an infant when it comes to those seekers. My aunt was a pipe carry. My sister's a pipe carry. I mean, there's so many. I just now a pipe carry. Wow. But those are really powerful things, you know, they're really powerful.

[00:48:33] So one time, uh, my father and law, he always keeps his put away, right? And, and he's all in one time. He was, he was using it. It wasn't his bag and everything, but it was kind of left. Near a window.

[00:48:50] Wasn't in the window just near the window. And he's kids reached in there and they took it. While when they took it, they went up to Seattle. And I guess that's where there was their mother. Somebody in her family lived up there. But these kids were no good.

[00:49:05] And that's where they took it. And they went up there with it. And Jesus, they really had bad luck. They mean, I'm talking bad. Like people were dying in their family. So they start asking them things. Because they seen it. Hey, where'd you get this?

[00:49:21] What'd you do with this? And, you know, what is that, you know, where? You know, all these questions about how they got it. And they finally came clean, I guess. And they said that, you know, they stole it from my father.

[00:49:34] And I made him bring it back because all that bad That was coming there way. You know, you don't fool with those things. If you don't have the right to it, then you don't. You don't mess with that. And that, I mean, he's told me the story.

[00:49:49] Maybe someday he'll tell it himself. I don't own a tell-his story, but the spirit that gave him that pipe was really an old, old, powerful one. So they really got it by doing that, you know, supposed to do that. That sounds like a little bit of a...

[00:50:09] Have you ever done that? Oh, good. Have you ever been to a son, dance? Yeah. Yeah. We call him Ocon. The medicine lodge. So what we called him. You know, Ocon. Another guy ran a Sundance. He was like the guy who I grew up with. He ran one.

[00:50:30] But he passed on in 2003. He hasn't four, but his kids have kept it going. You know, and it's still there. And they have the big Ocon up in Canada every year. Oh, quite a few of them. Did they...

[00:50:47] Do they still do you like the spirit dance on the third day? Like, your guys are something else? I'm not sure. I'm really not sure. Because I couldn't tell you the ins and outs of the Sundance. I don't know what that well. So yeah, I'm really not sure.

[00:51:13] The last sentence that I've went to... I got the chance to do a... What is that called? A peoty meeting. Yeah, that was... I was actually pretty scary, but you say something so. Because it was the third day.

[00:51:38] And that's the night you dance with the spirits like at night. And then we... We started the peoty meeting on like the last dance on the second day. And like, I actually got sick. Like, I couldn't keep the peoty down.

[00:52:07] Because for some reason, I thought it was a good idea. Just to like hand out handfuls of peoty. And then the only thing you can like take it down with is peoty tea. And peoty tastes disgusting. And it was dry, like he couldn't swallow it.

[00:52:25] And I'm on my second day of not eating. And I couldn't keep it down. But I was still feeling the residual effects of the peoty when we were doing the experience dance. I just felt like the medicine. Like really like the... Brought me to that plane.

[00:52:50] And like, I was like dancing with the spirits. That's crazy because ours is not like that. We're not allowed to mix where we don't have peoty in our tribe. We're not allowed to use it. You know what I mean?

[00:53:09] Like if you're walking that red road, you can't even use peoty. Like with us in our tribe, it's against our ways. We don't... we can't do that. We don't have rights to. We don't know how to use it really. You know? That's against our way. For some...

[00:53:25] To my knowledge, I guess the sea have been really close friends with the pites. Like like a... like a seedble. Like the beginning of the ghost dance movement. That actually came from the pites, like the people who did peoty and stuff.

[00:53:43] And that's how that religion started with the ghost dance was from the pites. Hmm. Well, Volca, what's his name? That... that pite that come around. I'm not sure it was me. I'm pretty sure it was Volca. I remember that from a long time ago somewhere. Hmm.

[00:54:08] Who started that up? Yeah, that's really interesting though that... that... kind of sad too, you know. Let go of stance. Just... at whole time, they were so desperate to... bring the buffalo back. And all right, the people who was murdered, they were dancing for their...

[00:54:32] the last, like their loved ones to the point of exhaustion and like dropping dead from the dance. Like itself. Like that's how bad they wanted it back. Yes. That's pretty sad. We have a story in our tribe. We had this bundle called a ghost bundle.

[00:54:53] And I can see my dog breathing. He's sleeping. This ghost bundle... It's not a black feet bundle. Originally it wasn't. It belonged to one of the suit tribes. Then what happened was a black feet went down and raided.

[00:55:12] One of those bands, and they came back with that bundle. Well... They didn't know how to use it. So they sent another raid down after some time and they said to get one of them and bring them back up.

[00:55:30] And we'll have them teach us how to use it. And so they did. They went back down, they raided, and they brought one of those men up that knew how to use it. And... She's black feet, really. You know, strict, I'm sure. Other tribes were too black feet,

[00:55:45] we're really ruthless. Our ancestors are really... What they told them was you teach us how to use this. We're just going to kill you. But if we teach us, we'll let you go. And so that's what they did. And he taught them.

[00:55:59] He stayed with them whole winter and taught them how to use that ghost bundle. And... It was still in our tribe. The last time I could remember. I don't know if it was buried with one of those old guys. Or if it's still out there. But...

[00:56:13] From what I understand, it was really... How would I say it? A powerful bundle, but it was dangerous. Because of them ghosts. The way I understand it is they're unpredictable. But if you can get them to help you in good ways, they will, but you gotta really be...

[00:56:34] How would I say it? Focused. You gotta really be... Yes, it's really a serious bundle to have that. That one will be all of our. But in particular, that one was kind of dangerous, I guess. But yeah, that come from one of the suit tribes. Hmm... Umm...

[00:56:54] Is it like an altar? No, a bundle. Hmm... There. Basically just a... A group. How would I say it? So... A lot of times you see them wrapped up in hides. Like rolled up in hides, but they'll have a whole bunch of sacred objects inside of them.

[00:57:16] You know, and those... Each thing has a... Has a song to it has a... Like when someone... like when they open their bundles, like... Like right now they're opening the thunder bundles. Like I think they already did all that.

[00:57:28] And people were opening beefer bundles and things like that for the beginning of the year. But when they open them there's a certain way that you go about opening them. And you know, it's all methodical and in order.

[00:57:42] Each time, and all of the songs get to be sung a certain way. You know, everything has to be just... So... And that's how they used those bundles. That's why they needed to be taught because they didn't know how to use that ghost bundle that they took.

[00:57:54] Because you know, they used to keep bundles in the back of the lodge on tri-pods. Like during the day they'd kind of let them hang back there and in the air. That's where they would sit. But that's how it was about... That one I'm assuming they raided it.

[00:58:12] You know, it must have been hanging there. When they went into the camp, or they snuck in there and got it from inside the lodge. I don't know. But yeah, that's what those bundles are. Yeah, the black fee is closer to the locota than the locota.

[00:58:32] How was that right? So... Yeah. Because the locota are more western and we're eastern south of Codan. So I don't know. I mean, my mom's half locota, so I should, I guess, look into, look out of history.

[00:58:51] Plus they're more badass because they were the last ones to give up to colonial rule. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of... There was a lot of... How did I say it's storied, accomplished warriors. And all the tribes, Sue, Cheyenne, black fee...

[00:59:17] We all had our great, you know, we all did. And you have a chief little dog. He said, we have a black fee named Little Dog as well. And... I... Some of my friend, he's a part of the society. Crazy dog society.

[00:59:39] And he was telling me this story once. He said, you know how to... How he got that name, little dog. I said, no, I says, you know, if he's were talking about names and didn't last names.

[00:59:50] And he says, well, I ain't going to say the tribe because I don't want to offend anybody. Or anything like daddy said. But one of our warriors went down and he heard of this other warrior that was really prominent in that area of this other tribe.

[01:00:06] And he wanted to... Well, basically, see what he was made of, you know? And so they meet up and they start... You know, they challenge each other and so they're gonna have their fight. But he had a spirit, black could be had a spear.

[01:00:23] I guess he got the best of that other ending. And he was spear and when he had spear, I guess he sounded like a little dog whimpering. And he hit that spear. That's how he got his name, little dog. As because he made that good warrior, you know?

[01:00:42] He would do this little bit. Like, why people think that, like, Indian names... You are really on a roof, they can all that stuff. But most of the time it's like, if you do something embarrassing, that's your name for the rest of your life. Yeah.

[01:01:04] Yeah, and it is really... Like as they've seen it, they're really literal. Like really literal of how the name things like, like an early language spider. So while a dog see that really just... If he translated it, it means ground deer. Like, yeah, like...

[01:01:23] Well, but really it means running with legs, crisscrossing fast. But on the ground. That's a deer. You know, they're running, they run with their legs, crisscrossing really fast. But that's to call a spider that ground deer. So what would God see?

[01:01:45] Yeah, I'm not starting to talk about that. And verbs are the most... The sense structure is made up around the verb. So action was really important for, like, language. Yeah. Yeah. It was like... Like, using like white vocabulary, like the adverbs and the pronoun... Yeah, pronouns.

[01:02:16] Like the nouns were less important than the adjectives. Yeah, that's really interesting how... And a lot of native languages, they... One little word can mean so much, you know? Uh-huh. Like, um... And it's really diluted when... Like, it's translated into English. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:48] Sometimes you'll lose some of the... Some of the meanings to those... Like, I don't even really know how it literally translates... Like, some of the words are... Because they have to make up in the words, like... Because we have internet today. Computers. They have to...

[01:03:10] Like, our tribe used to have these conferences. I think they still do every year or three bands. They get together and they say, hey, Do we need to make a new word for this or something? So they'll all agree on the new word. But... I wonder that how...

[01:03:25] Before so literal, like... Because I don't know the word to internet. I wonder what they called it, and I have to ask. I... I feel like we've also lost a lot of words describing more complex concepts than English can, like, say. Yeah. Yeah. I could see that, yeah.

[01:03:55] And that's what makes me sad. It was like thinking about, like, like, shit, like that. It's just... The knowledge that we lost. Mm-hmm. And, like, especially, like... In spirits, like... I feel like... Because of Christianity, they turned it into, like...

[01:04:19] They made us all forcefully out of touch with, like, reality. Yeah. But they changed our perception, forcefully, through terror and genocide. But, like, the reality that is, like, that we should know is that the interconnected, like, the spirits and, like, all that stuff.

[01:04:40] You know, for me, how I look at it is... It was a dark time in our history. For sure. It was... You know, it's really unspeakable a lot of the things that have happened. And it's sad and... It's just horrible. But today...

[01:05:02] You know, they have their own way. Just like, like, black-feet can't do peo-di, because that's not our way. But peo-di is not a bad way. It works because it's their way. And they know how to use it in their way. Like, for us, we couldn't do that.

[01:05:21] Or, like, um... I don't know, I say it like, because some of them Catholics... Some of them that you talked to. Like, I know this guy, his name is Brother Richard, his friend Cheskin, his a monk from Ireland. And if you set down, listen to him talk.

[01:05:38] Man, he talks just like an elder. Like, hit the level of his understanding of spirituality is immense. I mean, he could tell you a lot of things. He could explain a lot of things that makes sense to us in our way. What he always says is, um...

[01:05:58] There are different channels to the same creator. This is how he always explains it. So what I'm saying is, um... The bad ones can take things and twist it. And, you know, really make their ways, like, harmful.

[01:06:19] Just like a native that was using bad medicine could do the same thing. All right, you got your good and you got your bad with all of it with each one. And in my mind, I think whatever your way is that you follow,

[01:06:37] I think there to be respected even if you don't understand them. You know what I'm saying? Because, uh... You know, I'm not like trying to take up for our speak up for any of the atrocities that have happened to all natives or anything like that.

[01:06:53] But there is some power in their way too. You know, because if you've ever heard these people talk about when they're being bothered by these bad spirits that they call demons, man, all they do is say the name of their God Jesus.

[01:07:11] They'll say His name and a lot of times those things will stop. So I know they have some sort, they have some power in their ways. But I think it a lot of it's been corrupted, you know? Yeah, when I was 15, I was like lost.

[01:07:31] And I did try to join a church when I was like 18. It's like searching for something. Yeah. And I ended up joining a church. And for four minutes, I did feel like the same way that I would feel like when I was in sweat.

[01:07:53] And then, like it was also just like, I felt the interconnectedness. But there was like evil. Like they, the money, like in like the way they operated and stuff, it was kind of like, not okay. I felt like they really just wanted people to submit.

[01:08:23] And like, they were running operations in like a third world country, trying to like convert Dom into Christianity. Yeah, I think a lot of that, a lot of times when there's money involved, it takes up my way from spirituality. I don't care what kind of spirituality it is.

[01:08:49] Yeah, how are you preaching about like being okay with like suffering while you're sitting in a comfortable big as managing? Yeah. Often like the donations from the church, like your weird. Yeah, because it's not like that in our way. It's totally different from us.

[01:09:15] And my totally get what you're saying, because I've had thoughts like that too. You know, like why? Wait a minute now, like in our way, we don't even, you can't charge for any of this. Like you would never charge somebody to come to a sweat.

[01:09:31] Like the way they, you're not supposed to advertise yourself here. Like the way you're supposed to hear from like a powerful medicine man is from, from, from mouth, like from people telling other people. Yeah, you don't, they can only help you when you seek them out.

[01:09:51] They don't come to you. They're not knocking on your door or anything like that. It's totally opposite in our way. You know, the native ways I've noticed that across most tribes were all liked that. Yeah, they can't.

[01:10:08] And you know, it's always, I always kind of thought of it like this. Like that's part of your journey to have to go seek that out. Whatever they have in store for you, whatever is predestined like I said, it's another way to say it.

[01:10:26] That's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to find it that's part of your, what you need to learn in this life, part of your journey.

[01:10:35] And if you go about it some other way then you're not going to learn all those things that you're supposed to in this life. So I've always thought about it like that too, you know? Like that's, I think why a lot of times you know what I mean,

[01:10:54] that's why they don't come to you. We're not allowed to go door to door hey, you guys want to sweat. You know, we don't do that or in the only way to get what sweat is to be invited, you know? Yeah.

[01:11:09] Or like, try to say, are you interested in talking about our Lord and Savior crazy words? Like something like that? Yeah, I mean, like make fun of, you know, because I respect these other ways too, even though I don't understand things that they do a lot of times

[01:11:28] because I wasn't raised that way, but it's kind of fun sometimes to point out the differences I want to kind of keep it lighthearted because I don't, you know, I don't want to offend anybody and I'm not trying to do that.

[01:11:40] I'm pretty humble guy myself when it comes to all of these things. Because like I said, I've talked to this guy, rather Richard, he's, oh man, I can't speak highly enough of this guy. He's one of the, the better ones.

[01:11:55] And it was another one in our tribe that preached that I tried, but Catholic that preached there too. And he was one of them that I really, really good people. And I mean, they are, how would I say it? They really are like close to their God,

[01:12:15] their good people, spirits are good. So I mean, No, I would say the same to you because like, I wouldn't be where I was today if that Christian couple didn't take me in. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I could see that. Like they, if they,

[01:12:35] if they follow, like I know like they can follow like their Christian, like in a good way because I've seen it and I've also felt it. But also being educated in the atrocities that the church committed it's confusing feelings, oh conflicting feelings.

[01:12:58] Well, it's important for them not to forget those things. I've got a lot of these, these people are, alright, well, I'll tell you when I've told this before on my podcast, but I'll tell you, so my grandpa, his mom,

[01:13:16] she had gotten six, so this would be my great grandma. My grandpa was born in 1922, so his mom was born in 1800s and she had gotten sick, her and a son of a lady. So they had to go,

[01:13:32] oh, what they did was they went across the creek over to the sky. That was a, he had a lot of medicine. He could heal like a doctor. And they went to him to ask for help because they got tuberculosis.

[01:13:44] And those days it was pretty much a death sentence if you didn't get it, but I was in the creek, and I was in the creek. So they were worried and they go to him and they ask him for help. And he tells them,

[01:13:58] oh, I don't even know how to, to doctor this, I don't know how he says, but let me go sleep and I'll see what they say. And that's how they say go fast. He's going to go fast and ask those spirits for help. And he says,

[01:14:19] what you guys hang on? And so he went out and he fasted and he got that knowledge and he come back. It was successful. His fast went good. And they taught him what to do. One of those spirits taught him what to do to help them.

[01:14:33] And so we gather everybody and he starts doing his doctoring, like the way that spirit showed him. And he cured my grandma and her friend, they were cured from tuberculosis. He was totally taken away. But when he was talking about it,

[01:14:51] he was saying that spirit that came and taught me that. He said it looks like this. It's just that guy right there. And there were, there were pointing, he was pointing to a picture of like an image of their god Jesus. He was pointing today,

[01:15:11] says it was a man with a beard and he had brown robes. He was a white man. He wasn't, you know, that's how they called him as a white man. He said it wasn't like us. He says it was a different spirit, different race. But anyways,

[01:15:28] that's what he called him and I don't think he really realized. You know, that Jesus would have been what a Aramaic speaking to you. I want to say what he was. Remember my history right, but but that's what he was calling him and he says,

[01:15:45] again, that was from this man that taught me that had a doctor, them. So these other elders were talking about it one time when they were saying, see, it's rare that it happens that spirits from the outside of our way come in

[01:16:02] to teach us things and to help us, but sometimes they do. And this is one of those times that those spirits cross over to our way. And they can help us like that too. So see what I'm saying is,

[01:16:16] I think a lot of those ways are really powerful. It's just some of it's been forgotten or or repressed or even like spoke against. You know, because I don't know, like how do you say that was wrong when it was your God that came. You know, it wasn't

[01:16:39] it wasn't anything else. And then it basically taught him how to do this miracle of healing. So I mean, how do you dispute that? It's just crazy. It's really crazy. It's deep. When you think about it. Yeah. I'm the Christian history. I do believe

[01:17:00] like most of that stuff did happen. And my sister, my elder sister, because I came to her asking about this. And I was like, so like what do you think about this? And then she gave me, like this was like from her mind.

[01:17:19] Like it wasn't like a spoken truth or anything. But she said that she believed that Jesus Christ was a medicine man. It was just a really, really powerful medicine man. Like with their God, like with God. I guess. And I guess that helps me understand.

[01:17:45] Yeah, that's a good way to understand it. That is. I like that. Because what I like that time, we could understand that. Yeah. I could get on board with that. And I agree. Because I think, well, like a lot of the stories that are told

[01:18:04] if they're wrote in books, a lot of times you lose to meaning through translations of the book. Right? And not only that, but when they're written down that person that's right in it, it's according to his point of view. That's writing that in the first place.

[01:18:24] The original book, whatever it is. Where's in the native way? Those old storytellers that would tell those stories. There was just, there wasn't like everybody. You know, there was, I mean, they could repeat like, you know, like, 400 stories again and night. Like, like, verbatim.

[01:18:45] But they knew this stuff. And it was passed down and passed down and passed down. And you would have people around because we were such a tight-knit community. And you knew that we were all about community. You know, when you had so many people close

[01:19:00] that if they got something wrong, somebody could stand up and say, oh, no, this part's wrong. Oh yeah, you're writing and they tell it the right way. That's how we preserved our oral histories across the tribes. Because it was, people make the argument that are not from our,

[01:19:17] you know, our oral tradition day. They say, well, what about that game? A telephone. It's like, yeah, but in telephone, you didn't have one person said something to them. And then, the next person that they talk, you didn't have somebody standing

[01:19:34] or getting ready to correct what they're saying before they passed that on. That's what's missing in a game of telephone. And our way there was always something there to make sure you were telling it right. You know, because our communities were really tight-knit and we didn't lie.

[01:19:50] There was no lying in our way. Like they... The word that we used for lying actually was invented because of white people. Yeah, there was no lies. Like, natives, they didn't know how to lie. That wasn't a thing, you know? Everyone called it shijata. Which means fork tongue.

[01:20:11] Hello. She's crazy. Oh, but that's, it's really interesting when you think about all those. Those contrasts between the non-native ways and the native ways. Because there is a lot of contrasts between them. You know, they're almost opposite. Jeez. But yeah, those spirits, they don't have a...

[01:20:40] They're just spirit. They're just no... Like that brother Richard is saying, there's multiple channels to get to the same place. It's not. You know, it's really not those spirits. I don't like that. They don't... Like a... A soup spirit could easily come to me.

[01:20:59] A black-wheat spirit could easily come to you. You know what I mean? Like they really don't have that boundary. You know, spirits, spirit. It's kind of how I understand. That could be wrong. Um... I've never... I've never... But I've never... It was explained that there's, like...

[01:21:22] Human spirits, I guess. It was just always like, There's spirits. It's, like, ancient spirits, like all around us and stuff. And... I was told that if you... um... committed suicide or... um... died while intoxicated or didn't live like life as like a...

[01:21:44] like a good Indian on the red road, you were stuck to watch. Like you were chained to the earth and forced to watch your family forget about you. Oh, here I mean see that that does happen like people do get stuck.

[01:22:08] That's why like we have a lot of these ceremonies for them like we'll sweat for them or or just different things that we do for them when people pass, you know? Because of the three days. Well like what usually happens in our way

[01:22:25] like what I see today is that they'll have a sweat for them they'll all gather and they'll all call in different ancestors or different spirits. I mean it always starts the creator first and it goes down from there to but to call all these spirits

[01:22:44] to go help that one, make it to the other side. Especially when they die suddenly or in a bad way somehow. And those are the times you really want to send them help, you know? Because if they don't have that help say their family is not into that

[01:23:03] or they just don't have that and in themselves they were never I would say religious or they never prayed or followed a certain spiritual path. Those ones can get stuck really easy you know? What we believe is the longer you stay away

[01:23:22] from the creator that where she become because of a spirit he sent down named Nopy or old man. He sent this spirit down in our stories and over time he stayed away too long and he became bad. This is the trickster everybody talks about in the tribes.

[01:23:42] When he came to our tribe he looked like an old man like the creator, like almost the image of the creator so he looked. But anyways, so we believe that the longer you stay away from him the more bad you become.

[01:23:55] So your spirit has to make that journey over first. And once it, you know, gets it strength back and it's strong enough then they can come back and visit you. Visit your family. You know, check on loved ones and they do. They do that.

[01:24:11] They come back in dreams. Sometimes they send just subtle signs like all of a sudden you'll see a bunch of rabbits a bunch of butterflies. It'll just be common. Like with the hex, I don't know you're all in my scenes and many rabbits. Why is there so many?

[01:24:27] Usually it's a loved one coming back to say hi because you know, to get another way to do it. That this is one way they do it or they sometimes do things. My dad shows up as a spider because his name is a kthomi dita

[01:24:45] which is the red spider. That's cool. That's really cool. That's like, you know, you don't laugh and you say that because I don't kill spiders. Yeah, no, you know. I tell my family like, look, don't, don't kill them. Let them out. Let those spiders out.

[01:25:07] Don't, don't bother them. Imagine if people were scared you just because how you looked and then they decided to kill you. That ain't fair. So treat them. Do what you want to be trying. You know, always be good to them. So that was the whole life, family.

[01:25:23] We were told that the real kthu people were told that they were going to kill the spider so like a storm. If that was traveling spirit she's welcome to come back any time she wants and she's a very knowledgeable young lady about her tribe

[01:25:43] and a lot of history surrounding her tribe and natives in general. So it's always a pleasure to talk to people that have a lot of knowledge and history and whatnot. And I would encourage anybody else you know from the different tribes. Please come on the show.

[01:26:03] We want to hear it because I like hearing different tribes ways and how they do things. It's interesting to me. So you grow, you know, you a single boy in the flat head and any of the tribes that are out there and the Sue tribes, the Dene.

[01:26:24] Peemos, Papagos, Yuts. You guys have stories and you can't forget our last and native brothers and sisters from Alaska. If you guys have any stories please by all means come on. Contact me through email which is large tales at gmail.com or you can join the Facebook group

[01:26:47] and send me a message there as well. It's just large tales. If you search for groups on Facebook it's there or you can go to the website largetales.com and you can leave a message there as well. Also I'm on TikTok. So you can find me on TikTok

[01:27:07] and follow me and send a message like that. I'll see you in this. Because I don't have a private account on there, it's open so you can come on there and send me a message and I get it and we'll go from there.

[01:27:20] But yeah, anybody that has stories please reach out because for one it's important that we preserve our stories on something somewhere you know, our ghost stories and stuff because I think that's important too and it's also cool to just have your kids and grandkids down the road

[01:27:40] to be able to hear an old ghost story from grandpa or grandma. I was sure I could have heard my grandparent stories that wish we had something like this for them and they were able to save them. So I think it's really going to be a good thing

[01:27:54] for people to reach out and share but I also understand if you don't want to and yeah, that's it for the show. So the next show is going to be another woman from the Black Feet raising she has a lot of stories about UFOs and spirits

[01:28:11] so stay tuned for that. Alright, until next time.