Episode 53. Barry - The Horseman

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[00:01:01] I hear the first officer call out. And the first officer jumps on the radio and he screams, holy sh**, the goat man.

[00:01:11] And I mean it's just like everything went quiet.

[00:01:16] I could hear the ringing in my ears and I could feel my heart race. So I hit my life.

[00:01:26] I've been told by some older people, elders there, you grab them and you hold them and you don't own them but you hold them there until daylight.

[00:01:38] If we can hold them or pull them into the light, it destroys anything they have.

[00:01:45] Any kind of power or anything that or anything they were trying to do to you, it'll destroy them.

[00:01:51] This guy was like bouncing. Like, you know like how you see people kind of getting ready to jig?

[00:01:58] You know how they kind of bounce? Yeah, he was like that way. He was just kind of bouncing and he was just kind of going back and forth and one foot to the other.

[00:02:06] And he just kind of turned sideways and he turned back over to the other way.

[00:02:12] And he took off. Oh, he sh**, he jumped in Wanda.

[00:02:18] Welcome back. You're listening to Lodgetails and I'm your host Rod Williamson.

[00:02:24] This episode's got our first Apache guest.

[00:02:29] And we talk about a few things in here but the main thing is that horseman.

[00:02:35] You know, we have one story of this horseman on a previous podcast with Arlen Potts.

[00:02:42] And it was the first time I ever heard of this horseman.

[00:02:46] And you know, across native stories, traditions, I don't know what you want to call it, even ghost stories or just anything like that.

[00:03:00] We, there's many, many stories of different spirits or entities or beings or that are like half man and half animal.

[00:03:13] There's quite a few out there.

[00:03:16] You know, just off the top of my head, the ones I've heard about are, of course, the horseman, then the goatman, a snakeman.

[00:03:26] Geez, I haven't heard of a bunnyman.

[00:03:28] There's one of the podcasts with a guest that wanted to remain anonymous.

[00:03:33] He talked about a bunnyman.

[00:03:35] I mean, there's so many of these, these stories.

[00:03:39] There was even a story of this cow that was dancing with Taryn.

[00:03:42] Taryn's on one of these podcasts and she talks about a story that, that she heard from her auntie like that.

[00:03:49] Where it was upright on its back legs and it was dancing.

[00:03:53] Like, yeah.

[00:03:54] I mean, there's so many of these weird, strange occurrences, sightings of different things.

[00:04:05] You know, there's even a, what I don't hear a lot about is a dog man.

[00:04:10] But if you go back to my episodes, I thought, I want to say I talk about it in here because I think I've seen one of those.

[00:04:19] I was not a totally 100% sure, but whatever it was, wasn't anything I've ever seen before.

[00:04:28] So, then it was just a quick glimpse during a thunderstorm when I seen something like that.

[00:04:33] But, um, there are other stories too.

[00:04:36] I mean, even the story of a Batman.

[00:04:39] Where it looked like a gargoyle up on Seven Mile Lane.

[00:04:43] There's just so many different stories like this.

[00:04:46] And to me, they're all pretty fascinating.

[00:04:48] But here with Barry, we kind of get, we get more stories of the horseman and how it looks.

[00:04:58] These, these ones that he's seen down there in San Carlos, uh, Apache Rez are, are four-legged.

[00:05:06] Like the centaurs in, in Greek mythology.

[00:05:09] That's how he said they look.

[00:05:11] Well, recently when I was at the Ocon or Sundance, we were up telling stories at night.

[00:05:19] And one of these nights, a guy I'm trying to get on the podcast, I don't know if he'll come on to tell, tell his story.

[00:05:25] But he tells a story of a horseman there.

[00:05:28] So that would be two horseman stories from my Rez that I've heard in my whole life.

[00:05:34] Just two.

[00:05:35] Whereas Barry has quite a few.

[00:05:38] And it's really, to me, an interesting thing to think about and to hear these stories of, of what they've seen.

[00:05:47] And so, that's kind of my takeaway from, I mean, there's a lot of really good stories that Barry has.

[00:05:55] And the ones that stood out to me were of this horseman.

[00:05:59] Because there's so many half-man, half-animal type stories, right?

[00:06:03] There's really an old story in our way too, about this Wolverine woman that's in the mountains.

[00:06:09] And in this case, it's half...

[00:06:12] Well, it's not even a half-Wolverine, half-woman. It's just a woman.

[00:06:16] And, you know, she looks like just an old Indian, buckskins and stuff, comes in, will sit in your camp with you at night.

[00:06:24] Like if you have your fire going, you're sitting up, she'll come and sit in there with you.

[00:06:29] And, as the stories go, if you know, you don't do stuff in a certain way, she'll actually kill you.

[00:06:39] So, that's an old, old story though.

[00:06:42] I remember that one.

[00:06:43] And how you get rid of her is you simply just take a piece of meat from what you're cooking.

[00:06:48] And you throw it over your shoulder behind you.

[00:06:51] And you don't, you don't look back and she'll go back there and get it and go away.

[00:06:56] So, that's like the only way to get rid of that, to come out of that one alive, I guess.

[00:07:01] But, again, thank you for all being here and listening to the stories.

[00:07:09] And, you know, we...

[00:07:11] I try my best to get as many episodes out as I can a month, like I've said before.

[00:07:16] And I'm still hanging in there.

[00:07:19] We still got some more interviews coming up and I've got two more lined up.

[00:07:24] What I wish is that I had like a full year schedule lined up.

[00:07:27] Wouldn't that be great?

[00:07:28] For me it would.

[00:07:30] Because then I'd know what I'm doing.

[00:07:32] And it's not more so like a shooting from the hip kind of thing.

[00:07:36] But we got a few things in the works.

[00:07:40] We...

[00:07:41] There's a few of us here that have been approached.

[00:07:44] I was approached first by NPR.

[00:07:47] They have a podcast called Spooked.

[00:07:50] So, if you haven't heard of that one, go check that one out.

[00:07:52] It's a pretty good podcast, Spooked.

[00:07:55] And this lady contacted me.

[00:07:58] Somehow she stumbled upon Lodgetails and she wanted to talk with me.

[00:08:02] And have me tell some stories of my personal experiences.

[00:08:06] And along the way she inquired about some others.

[00:08:10] And I kind of brought them up too.

[00:08:12] So, I think she brought up Angelo Bullplume.

[00:08:15] And then I brought up...

[00:08:16] Well, there's Colden and there's Mike.

[00:08:18] You know, there's Colden Goss and there's Mike Conley as well.

[00:08:22] And they've given me permission to use their names on the podcast.

[00:08:25] So, it was fine.

[00:08:26] But I...

[00:08:28] I...

[00:08:29] First got their permission to send the contact information to her.

[00:08:33] And then I sent her the contact information for them.

[00:08:36] So, at some point...

[00:08:38] I mean, she just called me a couple days ago.

[00:08:40] And we were kind of figuring out a game plan on how we can get the stories all together for her.

[00:08:45] And for their podcasts from all four of us.

[00:08:49] And what she would like to do is meet sometime in Browning on the Res, Blackfeet Res.

[00:08:58] And record all our stories at one time.

[00:09:00] You know, all four of us.

[00:09:01] Be able to sit down with us.

[00:09:03] And I don't know what that's going to look like.

[00:09:05] You know, she might come to each one of our places and...

[00:09:09] Or wherever we want to meet and record with her.

[00:09:12] Who knows?

[00:09:13] But I'm actually really looking forward to that.

[00:09:16] Because depending on where you go.

[00:09:18] And who you're going to meet with.

[00:09:21] Of course, there's going to be family members around.

[00:09:23] And when you get into those stories like that.

[00:09:26] These types of stories.

[00:09:27] So many people chime in.

[00:09:30] And it starts to take on a life of its own.

[00:09:32] And you end up with a really good ghost story session.

[00:09:36] That you guys are just involved with.

[00:09:38] So...

[00:09:39] I'm hoping something like that happens.

[00:09:41] At one point.

[00:09:43] You know, I mean, I think it will.

[00:09:44] Like say she was to go from place to place.

[00:09:46] And just sit down and interview them.

[00:09:48] I think that's what would happen at each place.

[00:09:50] Their families would start getting involved.

[00:09:52] But...

[00:09:53] It would really be nice to share with the world.

[00:09:57] You know, with everybody out there.

[00:09:58] The Lodgetales audience anyways.

[00:10:02] How...

[00:10:02] How that works.

[00:10:04] And it's all non-scripted.

[00:10:06] And you know, one story reminds me of this.

[00:10:08] And then there'd be another person.

[00:10:09] Hey, that reminded me of this one.

[00:10:11] And I heard a story just like that.

[00:10:13] Well, similar.

[00:10:14] But it goes like this.

[00:10:15] And you know, it just...

[00:10:18] Eventually starts...

[00:10:19] Kinda...

[00:10:20] Turned like...

[00:10:21] Minutes turned into hours.

[00:10:22] Before you know it.

[00:10:23] It's...

[00:10:24] It's a...

[00:10:24] What would I say?

[00:10:25] Captivating.

[00:10:26] When you're sitting there and you're in a part of that.

[00:10:28] But...

[00:10:29] Because we all have experiences.

[00:10:30] And we all have things that we'll share.

[00:10:32] Not necessarily have they ever shared with the world.

[00:10:36] But...

[00:10:36] During those...

[00:10:39] Times is when you hear...

[00:10:40] You hear a lot of really good stories.

[00:10:43] And...

[00:10:43] Um...

[00:10:44] That's something I've always wanted to share with...

[00:10:47] With the...

[00:10:49] The world.

[00:10:49] With my audience.

[00:10:51] And...

[00:10:51] Everybody that supports the show.

[00:10:53] You know, it's really a...

[00:10:55] Interesting time that...

[00:10:56] That takes place.

[00:10:57] And...

[00:10:58] If we get a time...

[00:10:59] Or we get a chance...

[00:11:00] I'd like to...

[00:11:01] You know, record some of those sessions.

[00:11:03] So that we could...

[00:11:04] Of course put those out.

[00:11:05] It's just a matter of time.

[00:11:07] I mean, how do I set up my...

[00:11:08] All my equipment...

[00:11:10] With everybody around.

[00:11:12] And...

[00:11:13] Not have all the dogs barking.

[00:11:15] And all the kids...

[00:11:16] Yelling around.

[00:11:17] And horse fighting.

[00:11:18] You know what I mean?

[00:11:19] Because that...

[00:11:20] That's kind of a concern of mine too.

[00:11:22] I want to get the audio.

[00:11:23] But at the same time...

[00:11:24] I don't want to make it like...

[00:11:26] You know...

[00:11:27] Hey, run them all off.

[00:11:28] Run them into their rooms.

[00:11:30] Or...

[00:11:30] You know, I just want it to be...

[00:11:31] Good.

[00:11:32] You know...

[00:11:33] Just normal.

[00:11:34] Relaxing.

[00:11:34] Whatever.

[00:11:36] Uh...

[00:11:36] Organic.

[00:11:37] I guess you'd say.

[00:11:39] But...

[00:11:39] Yeah...

[00:11:40] Let's get into Barry's stories.

[00:11:43] Um...

[00:11:44] Oh, but real quick...

[00:11:45] Before we do that...

[00:11:46] Just...

[00:11:47] Just remember to...

[00:11:48] Share this podcast...

[00:11:49] Wherever you can.

[00:11:50] Because it is growing.

[00:11:51] And it's thanks to people...

[00:11:52] Like you guys...

[00:11:53] Listening.

[00:11:54] And I...

[00:11:54] I really appreciate that.

[00:11:56] So share this podcast...

[00:11:58] Where you can.

[00:11:59] Um...

[00:12:00] Remember if you want to...

[00:12:01] Listen to the members only episodes...

[00:12:03] You have to do it on Patreon.

[00:12:04] That's the only place I know of...

[00:12:06] That I can set up to have...

[00:12:07] Any of these episodes monetized.

[00:12:09] And...

[00:12:10] I only do the members only episodes there.

[00:12:12] So...

[00:12:13] If you want more...

[00:12:14] You gotta go on to Patreon.com...

[00:12:16] Create an account...

[00:12:17] Put in your info...

[00:12:18] Like your payment info...

[00:12:19] And then...

[00:12:20] There's membership tiers...

[00:12:22] On...

[00:12:23] On Patreon.

[00:12:24] But you can also...

[00:12:26] Listen to...

[00:12:27] Any of the episodes...

[00:12:28] The free ones on Patreon...

[00:12:30] You can listen to them all on there too.

[00:12:31] To...

[00:12:32] It's just the free ones...

[00:12:33] They're behind a paywall.

[00:12:35] You'll have to pay $5 a month...

[00:12:37] For those.

[00:12:38] But it's a...

[00:12:40] It's a pretty good...

[00:12:42] Uh...

[00:12:42] Deal because you get so many extra stories...

[00:12:45] From...

[00:12:45] From that right.

[00:12:47] But um...

[00:12:48] Again I just want to thank everybody...

[00:12:50] Patreon members...

[00:12:51] And all listeners...

[00:12:52] Out there for listening to the...

[00:12:53] To the podcast and...

[00:12:56] Thank you...

[00:12:57] To the people overseas...

[00:12:59] Um...

[00:12:59] That are not from the United States...

[00:13:00] That just love to hear...

[00:13:01] These types of stories...

[00:13:02] I'm happy to share with you...

[00:13:04] And I'm...

[00:13:04] I'm really honored that...

[00:13:05] Everybody tunes in...

[00:13:07] But I'd like to give a shout out...

[00:13:09] To all the non...

[00:13:10] Non-Natives that tune in...

[00:13:12] We really appreciate your support...

[00:13:14] And to all of the Natives...

[00:13:15] That do lessen...

[00:13:17] Believe me...

[00:13:18] I...

[00:13:18] I love these stories...

[00:13:19] Just as much as you do...

[00:13:21] And I know a lot of you can relate...

[00:13:23] And a lot of times...

[00:13:24] These stories bring you back home...

[00:13:26] They give you that feeling...

[00:13:27] Of being back home...

[00:13:29] And especially to the ones...

[00:13:30] That are not living on the res...

[00:13:32] Or to the ones that are reconnecting back...

[00:13:35] To the reservation...

[00:13:37] Um...

[00:13:37] I'm happy that you guys are all here...

[00:13:39] And that we're all together...

[00:13:40] And we're all enjoying these stories...

[00:13:42] I really appreciate you guys being here...

[00:13:46] Um...

[00:13:47] Another thing I would like to...

[00:13:48] Kind of put out there...

[00:13:50] Before we get into the show...

[00:13:51] Is um...

[00:13:54] Um...

[00:13:55] Please...

[00:13:56] Try to...

[00:13:58] You know...

[00:13:59] Do more...

[00:14:00] For your elders...

[00:14:02] Please try to help people...

[00:14:04] In any way you can...

[00:14:06] And...

[00:14:07] You know...

[00:14:08] Maybe someday...

[00:14:09] The things that you do...

[00:14:11] Will create a better world...

[00:14:12] Than we grew up in...

[00:14:13] If we could do that for me...

[00:14:15] I'd really...

[00:14:17] It would really make me smile...

[00:14:19] It'd really make me happy...

[00:14:20] Knowing that...

[00:14:21] Any of us made an impact...

[00:14:23] On someone else's life...

[00:14:25] In a good way...

[00:14:26] So if you can...

[00:14:27] Find it in your heart to do...

[00:14:29] You know...

[00:14:29] A good deed every now and again...

[00:14:32] Jeez...

[00:14:32] That's...

[00:14:32] That's right up there in my books...

[00:14:34] So thank you...

[00:14:35] Let's get into the show...

[00:14:43] Okay...

[00:14:43] Hey...

[00:14:43] Hey everybody...

[00:14:45] Um...

[00:14:46] Um...

[00:14:46] My buddy Rod here...

[00:14:47] Just...

[00:14:48] Uh...

[00:14:48] Asked me to...

[00:14:49] Come on and tell some stories...

[00:14:51] My name is...

[00:14:52] Barry...

[00:14:53] I'm from the...

[00:14:54] St. Carlos Apache Reservation...

[00:14:55] Out here in Arizona...

[00:14:57] And...

[00:14:59] I grew up here...

[00:15:01] Um...

[00:15:02] I've been to a lot of places...

[00:15:03] But you know...

[00:15:05] Um...

[00:15:05] Bylaws...

[00:15:06] A ton of Bylaws here on the reservation...

[00:15:08] I've always been home...

[00:15:09] And this is where...

[00:15:10] You know...

[00:15:10] Everything started with...

[00:15:11] It's me seeing...

[00:15:14] And...

[00:15:15] Hearing and dealing with a lot of...

[00:15:18] Stuff...

[00:15:19] I mean...

[00:15:20] I...

[00:15:21] One thing that...

[00:15:23] Being loud...

[00:15:23] Just got in conversation about...

[00:15:25] Was he asked me if there was something that...

[00:15:27] That I had witnessed...

[00:15:28] Because I knew...

[00:15:29] You know...

[00:15:29] I knew...

[00:15:30] At one...

[00:15:31] One of the...

[00:15:32] Construction sites...

[00:15:33] Just overnight security...

[00:15:34] And...

[00:15:34] I mentioned to him that...

[00:15:36] You know...

[00:15:37] I thought...

[00:15:37] Last night...

[00:15:38] I heard some horses running...

[00:15:39] And...

[00:15:40] We got in the talk...

[00:15:41] He asked me about the...

[00:15:43] Half man...

[00:15:44] Half horse...

[00:15:44] I told him...

[00:15:45] Yeah...

[00:15:45] We call him goofy...

[00:15:46] I hear...

[00:15:46] And...

[00:15:49] There's been several incidents where...

[00:15:52] I've witnessed...

[00:15:54] I've seen...

[00:15:56] A being with...

[00:15:59] Horse...

[00:15:59] A horse-like body...

[00:16:01] And...

[00:16:02] Uh...

[00:16:04] Human...

[00:16:05] Upper body...

[00:16:07] I know...

[00:16:08] Um...

[00:16:08] The Greeks call them...

[00:16:10] Uh...

[00:16:10] Centaurs...

[00:16:11] But...

[00:16:12] Out here...

[00:16:12] We just call them goofy...

[00:16:14] And...

[00:16:15] Um...

[00:16:16] There was an incident where...

[00:16:18] I was at my grandma's house...

[00:16:19] And with my brothers...

[00:16:20] And my cousins were sleeping outside...

[00:16:23] When...

[00:16:24] We heard a...

[00:16:25] You know...

[00:16:26] A horse...

[00:16:27] When it kicks the ground...

[00:16:28] All we heard is a...

[00:16:29] A couple of thumps...

[00:16:31] Thump...

[00:16:32] Thump...

[00:16:33] Thump...

[00:16:34] And I...

[00:16:36] Happened to wake up...

[00:16:37] Roll over...

[00:16:38] A couple of my cousins...

[00:16:39] They were...

[00:16:40] Just laying there...

[00:16:40] And you could tell...

[00:16:41] They were saying...

[00:16:42] And I heard them say...

[00:16:43] Shh...

[00:16:43] Quiet...

[00:16:44] Quiet...

[00:16:45] But they were whispering to each other...

[00:16:47] And...

[00:16:48] When I turned and looked...

[00:16:49] There was a horse standing there...

[00:16:50] And I just seen a...

[00:16:52] A man's upper body...

[00:16:53] He was standing there...

[00:16:54] Looking over us...

[00:16:57] I...

[00:16:58] Don't know what you wanted...

[00:17:00] But it just kind of...

[00:17:01] Freaked us out...

[00:17:02] Where we didn't want to move...

[00:17:04] And...

[00:17:05] My grandma just came out the house...

[00:17:07] Yelling...

[00:17:07] Nah...

[00:17:08] Get out of here...

[00:17:09] Leave my kids alone...

[00:17:12] And...

[00:17:12] Just hear...

[00:17:13] I just seen it...

[00:17:14] Reared up on his hind legs...

[00:17:16] And...

[00:17:17] It kind of...

[00:17:17] Like just laughed...

[00:17:19] And...

[00:17:19] Then off towards the hills...

[00:17:22] And...

[00:17:23] It just...

[00:17:23] That's just something that's...

[00:17:25] It's just...

[00:17:25] It's just...

[00:17:25] In my mind...

[00:17:27] Well...

[00:17:28] But it just laughed...

[00:17:29] Like a human...

[00:17:30] Huh?

[00:17:31] Yeah...

[00:17:32] I mean...

[00:17:33] When I saw it...

[00:17:34] Turn...

[00:17:35] And...

[00:17:36] Run south...

[00:17:37] Into...

[00:17:38] This mountain that we call...

[00:17:39] Mount Turnbull...

[00:17:40] It's sacred to us...

[00:17:42] And...

[00:17:43] It just...

[00:17:44] I thought I was gonna see...

[00:17:46] Maybe...

[00:17:46] The horse's head...

[00:17:48] And...

[00:17:48] The rider on there...

[00:17:49] But...

[00:17:50] Nah...

[00:17:51] It was...

[00:17:52] Actual horse body...

[00:17:54] With a human body...

[00:17:55] And there...

[00:17:56] It just started running...

[00:17:58] And...

[00:17:59] That...

[00:17:59] That laugh is just...

[00:18:01] Something you never...

[00:18:04] Never forget...

[00:18:05] It wasn't more like a human...

[00:18:08] Or...

[00:18:10] Uh...

[00:18:11] Anything I've ever heard before...

[00:18:15] Whoa...

[00:18:16] My grandma said that...

[00:18:17] Used to say that...

[00:18:18] They're...

[00:18:19] Bad beings that come from another...

[00:18:21] Another place...

[00:18:22] Another world...

[00:18:23] And they...

[00:18:24] And they take...

[00:18:26] People...

[00:18:27] To go back to their world...

[00:18:30] Oh...

[00:18:33] And...

[00:18:33] That down at the...

[00:18:35] Bottom of our...

[00:18:36] Our sacred mountain...

[00:18:37] There's...

[00:18:38] Caves that...

[00:18:40] Uh...

[00:18:40] Portals...

[00:18:42] That...

[00:18:43] Can...

[00:18:43] That can travel from...

[00:18:44] Their world to ours...

[00:18:46] And...

[00:18:46] They can go back to...

[00:18:47] From ours...

[00:18:48] Just the same as...

[00:18:51] Bigfoot...

[00:18:51] Now...

[00:18:51] My great grandma...

[00:18:52] When she was alive...

[00:18:53] She used to tell us...

[00:18:54] Stories about that...

[00:18:55] How...

[00:18:56] The big hairy man...

[00:18:57] Used to come...

[00:18:58] Come up in the cave...

[00:19:00] And...

[00:19:02] Uh...

[00:19:03] Said that...

[00:19:04] Uh...

[00:19:04] That hairy man took...

[00:19:06] One of her cousins...

[00:19:09] And took him...

[00:19:10] Took her back to...

[00:19:11] His world...

[00:19:12] Uh...

[00:19:13] A couple of the...

[00:19:14] Apache Braves...

[00:19:15] Tried to...

[00:19:16] Chase him down...

[00:19:17] And get her back...

[00:19:18] But...

[00:19:19] They couldn't keep up with it...

[00:19:23] And this was a time when...

[00:19:24] Um...

[00:19:26] Geronimo was around...

[00:19:28] Yeah...

[00:19:31] Wow...

[00:19:32] There's...

[00:19:34] There's...

[00:19:35] There's a lot of history...

[00:19:35] Up in this mountains up here...

[00:19:38] A lot of stories about Bigfoot...

[00:19:46] Um...

[00:19:48] One night...

[00:19:49] One of my cousins...

[00:19:51] Come...

[00:19:52] Came running back to...

[00:19:53] Run over to my...

[00:19:54] My mom and dad's house...

[00:19:55] I was a teenager...

[00:19:56] Me and my brothers...

[00:19:58] And he came running over...

[00:20:00] And you know...

[00:20:00] Uncle Robert...

[00:20:01] Uncle Robert...

[00:20:03] Uh...

[00:20:03] Something tried to take my sister...

[00:20:06] And we looked out...

[00:20:08] And...

[00:20:08] We seen this...

[00:20:10] Dark trigger...

[00:20:11] Just...

[00:20:12] Running south...

[00:20:13] Across the rail tracks...

[00:20:15] It was running on two legs...

[00:20:17] And...

[00:20:18] My cousins...

[00:20:19] They hear screaming...

[00:20:20] From the bedroom...

[00:20:21] You know...

[00:20:22] Got real high pitch...

[00:20:24] And my dad...

[00:20:25] Turns out...

[00:20:25] Boys...

[00:20:25] Let's go...

[00:20:27] Uh...

[00:20:28] So me and my brothers...

[00:20:29] Ran out...

[00:20:30] We used to make spears...

[00:20:31] You know...

[00:20:33] Uh...

[00:20:33] Uh...

[00:20:34] From...

[00:20:34] Um...

[00:20:35] Get some salt cedar staffs...

[00:20:38] And...

[00:20:38] File down a nice piece of metal...

[00:20:40] Get some...

[00:20:40] Uh...

[00:20:41] Tire tubes...

[00:20:43] Uh...

[00:20:43] Wrap around...

[00:20:44] And make our own spears...

[00:20:45] And we...

[00:20:46] We grabbed those...

[00:20:47] And my dad jumped on his horse...

[00:20:48] And...

[00:20:49] Had his 30-30 Winchester...

[00:20:51] And...

[00:20:52] Took off riding...

[00:20:53] And we took off on foot...

[00:20:55] Running after him...

[00:20:57] But man...

[00:20:57] Whatever it was...

[00:20:59] It could...

[00:20:59] It could run...

[00:21:00] Because we couldn't...

[00:21:01] We didn't catch up to it...

[00:21:02] Even my dad on a horse...

[00:21:03] Couldn't catch up to it...

[00:21:04] And we just...

[00:21:05] Disappear in the hills...

[00:21:09] I just remember...

[00:21:10] Seeing hills like a...

[00:21:14] Dark brown...

[00:21:15] And just...

[00:21:16] Running on two eggs...

[00:21:17] The hill is big...

[00:21:18] Because those are not taller...

[00:21:19] And most of them are sea trees...

[00:21:20] And...

[00:21:21] I don't come close to getting that tall...

[00:21:25] There he is...

[00:21:28] Yeah...

[00:21:28] And my brother-in-law...

[00:21:29] He was out there getting wood...

[00:21:30] And he sent me a picture...

[00:21:32] Not too long ago...

[00:21:34] And...

[00:21:34] They've seen the footprints...

[00:21:36] Of one of them out there...

[00:21:37] And...

[00:21:38] Yeah...

[00:21:38] When I...

[00:21:39] When I look at that...

[00:21:40] That picture...

[00:21:41] I...

[00:21:42] Jeez...

[00:21:42] It looks...

[00:21:43] They...

[00:21:44] They look really weird...

[00:21:45] Man...

[00:21:45] You know...

[00:21:45] Because we don't know how...

[00:21:46] When we hunt...

[00:21:47] We know how to look at tracks...

[00:21:48] And kind of...

[00:21:49] You know...

[00:21:49] Yeah...

[00:21:50] We grew up like that...

[00:21:51] So...

[00:21:52] When I look at this one though...

[00:21:53] Man...

[00:21:54] There's just...

[00:21:55] Something's off...

[00:21:56] Because...

[00:21:57] The foot itself is...

[00:21:58] Oh...

[00:21:59] It's really wide...

[00:22:01] And...

[00:22:01] Almost looks blocky...

[00:22:03] Like a block footprint...

[00:22:04] And...

[00:22:05] You don't see any...

[00:22:06] It's like it steps straight down...

[00:22:08] And then picks its foot straight back up...

[00:22:10] Like there's no kick in it or nothing...

[00:22:13] That's the...

[00:22:14] Footprint I've seen that he sent...

[00:22:16] The best...

[00:22:17] One he could get...

[00:22:18] And I just stare at that...

[00:22:19] Kind of amazed...

[00:22:20] Like how did this...

[00:22:21] Thing...

[00:22:22] How does it walk?

[00:22:23] Like how did it make this?

[00:22:26] Yeah...

[00:22:27] Mm-hmm...

[00:22:28] I mean...

[00:22:28] I've been on the mountains...

[00:22:30] On the...

[00:22:31] Sunny towns with myself...

[00:22:32] And...

[00:22:32] I always get this feeling...

[00:22:34] Something's watching...

[00:22:36] And I just get...

[00:22:37] You know...

[00:22:37] Stand there real still...

[00:22:38] And start...

[00:22:38] Standing around...

[00:22:42] Slowly...

[00:22:42] Uh...

[00:22:43] You know...

[00:22:44] One spot...

[00:22:45] I got that eerie feeling...

[00:22:48] And...

[00:22:49] The only thing I had on me...

[00:22:49] Was that night...

[00:22:50] A knife...

[00:22:52] A pretty good size...

[00:22:53] A buck knife...

[00:22:55] Mm-hmm...

[00:22:56] I took it out...

[00:22:57] And...

[00:22:58] Started talking...

[00:22:59] You know...

[00:22:59] Hey...

[00:23:00] I'm not bothering you...

[00:23:01] Leave me alone...

[00:23:02] I don't want any trouble...

[00:23:04] But I will defend myself...

[00:23:07] And that's what my grandma...

[00:23:08] My great grandma used to always say...

[00:23:10] If you get that feeling...

[00:23:12] And something's watching you...

[00:23:13] So just tell it...

[00:23:15] Yeah...

[00:23:15] That you don't...

[00:23:16] You don't mean any harm...

[00:23:17] That you don't want any trouble...

[00:23:19] And for it to leave you alone...

[00:23:21] But I just got that feeling...

[00:23:23] Like something was really out to get me...

[00:23:25] So I started walking toward...

[00:23:27] Where I was getting that feeling from...

[00:23:28] And...

[00:23:30] Next thing you know...

[00:23:31] I just heard...

[00:23:32] You know...

[00:23:34] Twigs breaking...

[00:23:35] And whatever it was...

[00:23:36] It was moving fast...

[00:23:38] Away from me...

[00:23:39] Through the mesquite...

[00:23:40] And...

[00:23:40] I went to where...

[00:23:42] I...

[00:23:43] Had that feeling...

[00:23:44] Where it was...

[00:23:45] It was that...

[00:23:46] And I saw foot tracks...

[00:23:47] Like you said...

[00:23:48] It was just...

[00:23:49] It was bigger to my foot...

[00:23:51] I put my foot right next to it...

[00:23:53] And...

[00:23:54] It was...

[00:23:56] Maybe had a couple...

[00:23:58] Four inches longer...

[00:23:59] My foot...

[00:24:01] And I wear size 11s...

[00:24:04] And...

[00:24:05] And that was pretty big...

[00:24:07] It was wide too...

[00:24:08] Where the...

[00:24:09] Where the toes are...

[00:24:10] Huh?

[00:24:11] And the only time I could make out was...

[00:24:13] Looked like as big toe...

[00:24:15] The rest of the toes...

[00:24:16] I really couldn't...

[00:24:18] See too well...

[00:24:23] Jeez...

[00:24:23] And they gotta weigh a lot too...

[00:24:25] About...

[00:24:25] Yeah...

[00:24:26] When you look at them...

[00:24:26] Like how far they're pressed in...

[00:24:28] Like...

[00:24:29] Oh...

[00:24:29] Jeez...

[00:24:29] How do you...

[00:24:30] I mean...

[00:24:31] Say...

[00:24:31] Say somebody was trying to fake that...

[00:24:33] Well if you got a wider footprint...

[00:24:35] It's harder just...

[00:24:36] To displace the earth beneath it...

[00:24:38] Right?

[00:24:38] But these...

[00:24:39] These things are pushed in...

[00:24:41] Like...

[00:24:42] Kind of deep too...

[00:24:43] I mean...

[00:24:44] You take your little step by it...

[00:24:46] And...

[00:24:46] Well you don't even go in that far...

[00:24:48] And we got...

[00:24:49] Ridges on our shoes...

[00:24:50] That kind of dig in...

[00:24:51] Those don't even go in that far...

[00:24:53] You know?

[00:24:54] Yeah...

[00:24:54] I had a pair of hiking shoes on...

[00:24:56] And...

[00:24:57] You know...

[00:24:57] One of the ones I used to buy at Kmart...

[00:24:59] Mm-hmm...

[00:25:01] And...

[00:25:01] And that didn't even make a good impression too...

[00:25:04] I looked at it and said...

[00:25:04] Man this thing is heavy...

[00:25:07] Yeah...

[00:25:09] But this was...

[00:25:10] This was way before there was...

[00:25:11] We had cell phones...

[00:25:13] Stupid...

[00:25:14] I couldn't...

[00:25:15] I couldn't take any pictures of it...

[00:25:17] Yeah...

[00:25:18] Oh one time we were out...

[00:25:20] Um...

[00:25:20] There's this place called Big Rock...

[00:25:22] My brother-in-law took us out there...

[00:25:24] My wife and I...

[00:25:25] And...

[00:25:25] His wife is...

[00:25:26] Um...

[00:25:27] My wife's sister...

[00:25:28] But anyways...

[00:25:29] We were just driving out that way...

[00:25:31] Yeah...

[00:25:31] We brought our rifles and stuff...

[00:25:33] Just in case...

[00:25:33] Well it was kind of like in the winter...

[00:25:35] And...

[00:25:36] Uh...

[00:25:36] We ended up getting high-centered...

[00:25:38] And...

[00:25:38] Uh...

[00:25:39] So we were taking sticks...

[00:25:41] And we were just kind of shoving them under there...

[00:25:42] And we were right at the foothills of the mountains...

[00:25:44] I mean...

[00:25:45] Jeez...

[00:25:45] Not even a half mile over is where the mountains start climbing right there...

[00:25:49] And so...

[00:25:50] There's pine trees around us and stuff like that...

[00:25:53] And...

[00:25:53] And it...

[00:25:54] There's clearings...

[00:25:55] Here and there...

[00:25:56] Dotted with pine trees all through there...

[00:25:58] You know...

[00:25:58] And...

[00:25:59] They kind of get thick here and there...

[00:26:01] But...

[00:26:01] In this place we was at...

[00:26:03] There was kind of like a clearing...

[00:26:04] That was...

[00:26:05] Toward the mountains right in there...

[00:26:07] Before it started getting a lot of trees...

[00:26:09] Well...

[00:26:10] To our left of the road...

[00:26:11] So to the right would have been the mountains...

[00:26:13] To the left of the road was...

[00:26:14] Um...

[00:26:15] We were kind of gathering sticks...

[00:26:16] And shoving them under those tires...

[00:26:17] We got out...

[00:26:18] But...

[00:26:19] I remember when we got out...

[00:26:21] I was standing there...

[00:26:23] And...

[00:26:24] They were just pulling out...

[00:26:25] And he was pulling back around...

[00:26:27] And I start...

[00:26:28] Looking at those trees...

[00:26:30] And...

[00:26:31] I start...

[00:26:32] I start seeing things that didn't make sense...

[00:26:35] Man...

[00:26:35] Like...

[00:26:36] Like how...

[00:26:37] It's like those trees were woven together...

[00:26:39] And it was making a symbol...

[00:26:42] There was a symbol in there...

[00:26:43] And there's no way...

[00:26:44] Like the wind could do that...

[00:26:45] There's just no way...

[00:26:46] I mean...

[00:26:47] You know...

[00:26:47] You're out there...

[00:26:48] It was unnatural...

[00:26:50] Let me just put it that way...

[00:26:51] How that symbol...

[00:26:52] Whatever that thing was...

[00:26:53] Was woven together...

[00:26:54] The best way I could describe it...

[00:26:56] Was there was one tree coming up...

[00:26:58] And then another tree came down...

[00:27:00] At a...

[00:27:01] About a 45 degree angle...

[00:27:03] Woven through all of this...

[00:27:04] Just perfect...

[00:27:06] And another one came from the bottom...

[00:27:08] And it was woven...

[00:27:09] Up at a 45 degree angle...

[00:27:11] It almost looked like this weird...

[00:27:12] Looking arrow...

[00:27:14] But...

[00:27:14] You could tell it was...

[00:27:16] Like something did that...

[00:27:17] And then...

[00:27:18] I remember we were back there...

[00:27:19] A couple other times...

[00:27:21] Um...

[00:27:21] There wasn't no snow...

[00:27:22] And we were...

[00:27:23] Walking around...

[00:27:24] And...

[00:27:25] This one particular time...

[00:27:27] And...

[00:27:27] I just kept seeing like...

[00:27:30] Like...

[00:27:31] Things that were...

[00:27:32] Like a tree would be bent down...

[00:27:35] And then it would be like...

[00:27:36] I don't know...

[00:27:37] Like...

[00:27:38] Like...

[00:27:39] Bent to stay like that...

[00:27:40] And then there were other trees...

[00:27:41] That went up along it...

[00:27:42] And made kind of like ribs...

[00:27:44] But they were hidden...

[00:27:45] They weren't obvious...

[00:27:46] The way they would...

[00:27:48] I don't know man...

[00:27:49] It's just too much of a coincidence...

[00:27:51] Almost like they were...

[00:27:52] Laying down in there...

[00:27:53] I have no idea what it was...

[00:27:55] I mean...

[00:27:56] I don't even have an explanation for it...

[00:27:57] Other than...

[00:27:58] Whatever was doing that...

[00:28:00] Was...

[00:28:00] It was unnatural...

[00:28:01] It wasn't...

[00:28:02] Wind...

[00:28:02] It wasn't nothing like that...

[00:28:04] These...

[00:28:04] These were everywhere too...

[00:28:05] They were everywhere...

[00:28:09] Yeah...

[00:28:09] You know...

[00:28:11] I like...

[00:28:12] I like going out to the wilderness...

[00:28:13] I like to...

[00:28:13] Go hiking...

[00:28:15] Fishing...

[00:28:16] Hunting...

[00:28:17] And...

[00:28:18] A couple years ago...

[00:28:19] I was out...

[00:28:20] Harborsying my antlers...

[00:28:23] So...

[00:28:24] I was out with my nephew...

[00:28:26] And...

[00:28:27] We came across these...

[00:28:29] Pine trees that were...

[00:28:31] Bent at the base...

[00:28:33] And there had to have been...

[00:28:35] At least 10...

[00:28:36] That were just bent at the base...

[00:28:39] Facing...

[00:28:41] North...

[00:28:41] But all the other trees that were around it...

[00:28:44] Were standing straight up...

[00:28:46] It was just...

[00:28:47] Just like this real small group...

[00:28:49] Working on...

[00:28:50] I looked to see if there's...

[00:28:53] Might have been like a...

[00:28:54] Like a straight pathway...

[00:28:55] For the wind to come down...

[00:28:57] And bend it like that...

[00:28:58] Mm-hmm...

[00:28:59] But...

[00:28:59] There was pine trees all around...

[00:29:02] So I was like...

[00:29:02] They can't just...

[00:29:03] A wind can't...

[00:29:04] Couldn't just...

[00:29:05] Bend only bees...

[00:29:07] And leave all the other trees...

[00:29:09] Standing straight up...

[00:29:12] Whoa...

[00:29:13] And...

[00:29:14] Listening to you...

[00:29:16] Talk about how you said...

[00:29:18] You came across...

[00:29:20] The...

[00:29:21] The trees that were woven together...

[00:29:23] And...

[00:29:24] I...

[00:29:25] Come across this...

[00:29:27] Juniper tree...

[00:29:30] It was a...

[00:29:31] Pretty good...

[00:29:32] Had a good...

[00:29:32] Base at the bottom...

[00:29:34] Maybe...

[00:29:35] Four feet around the base...

[00:29:37] And...

[00:29:37] Mm-hmm...

[00:29:38] It was bent over...

[00:29:41] And the trees were...

[00:29:44] Were...

[00:29:45] Spread apart to...

[00:29:47] It looked like something was...

[00:29:48] Like living there...

[00:29:50] The ground was nice and...

[00:29:52] Level...

[00:29:52] And looked like it was sweat...

[00:29:54] I tried looking for tracks...

[00:29:56] To see if maybe...

[00:29:57] Maybe a person did this...

[00:29:59] And just using this as a...

[00:30:02] Um...

[00:30:02] Place to...

[00:30:03] You know...

[00:30:04] Hide out when there's a storm...

[00:30:06] Or during the winter or something...

[00:30:07] But...

[00:30:08] There was no tracks around...

[00:30:11] So...

[00:30:14] Just finding stuff like that...

[00:30:16] It's...

[00:30:17] It's...

[00:30:18] It's crazy...

[00:30:20] Yeah...

[00:30:21] This is time...

[00:30:23] I kind of freaked myself out...

[00:30:24] I'm dead too...

[00:30:25] I found...

[00:30:26] A...

[00:30:27] Group of trees...

[00:30:28] But...

[00:30:28] But they made a perfect circle...

[00:30:31] And they were grown...

[00:30:32] Grown out...

[00:30:33] And I was looking at it...

[00:30:35] But something told me...

[00:30:37] Don't walk in the...

[00:30:38] Walk in the middle...

[00:30:40] And...

[00:30:41] One of the trees that was...

[00:30:44] I mean...

[00:30:44] Like just perfectly...

[00:30:46] On the south side of the circle...

[00:30:49] Well...

[00:30:49] Um...

[00:30:50] There was a...

[00:30:50] A log that was...

[00:30:52] Like...

[00:30:53] Hung up on some branches that...

[00:30:55] And it looked like...

[00:30:56] Um...

[00:30:57] Arms...

[00:30:58] That were just sticking straight out...

[00:31:03] And...

[00:31:03] There were two legs...

[00:31:05] Placed...

[00:31:06] At the...

[00:31:06] At the...

[00:31:07] At the bottom...

[00:31:09] At the...

[00:31:10] Of course...

[00:31:10] Bottom of the tree...

[00:31:11] And it looked like a person...

[00:31:12] Was just hanging there...

[00:31:13] I was like...

[00:31:13] Man...

[00:31:14] This is not a good sign...

[00:31:16] Oh...

[00:31:17] Ha ha ha...

[00:31:19] Geez...

[00:31:19] That'd be weird to see...

[00:31:20] Man...

[00:31:20] I've never seen anything like that...

[00:31:23] Oh...

[00:31:23] Down in the middle of nowhere...

[00:31:25] I mean...

[00:31:25] Just...

[00:31:26] I said...

[00:31:26] We'll just walk around...

[00:31:28] And...

[00:31:29] Uh...

[00:31:29] Look for antlers...

[00:31:30] And...

[00:31:31] But...

[00:31:32] The only thing I could probably say...

[00:31:33] Is maybe somebody...

[00:31:34] Went through that area...

[00:31:35] Before I did...

[00:31:36] Maybe did it just for fun...

[00:31:38] But...

[00:31:39] Still...

[00:31:39] It gives you a creepy vibe though...

[00:31:41] Yeah...

[00:31:43] Yeah...

[00:31:43] Like my cousin's...

[00:31:44] Uh...

[00:31:45] My wife's cousin...

[00:31:45] Was talking to me...

[00:31:46] This one time...

[00:31:47] And he said...

[00:31:48] There was this place...

[00:31:49] Where they were elk hunting...

[00:31:50] And...

[00:31:51] He said...

[00:31:52] Um...

[00:31:52] As he was walking around in there...

[00:31:53] Oh...

[00:31:54] There was a tree...

[00:31:54] It...

[00:31:55] He said it was a big tree too...

[00:31:56] Man...

[00:31:57] It was big...

[00:31:58] Yeah...

[00:31:58] It was pulled up...

[00:32:00] Out of the ground...

[00:32:01] And...

[00:32:01] Then it was...

[00:32:02] It was put back in the ground...

[00:32:04] Upside down...

[00:32:05] Those roots were in the air...

[00:32:07] Oh...

[00:32:08] Dang...

[00:32:08] Yeah...

[00:32:09] He said he's seen that...

[00:32:10] That's crazy...

[00:32:10] He knows where it's at too...

[00:32:12] It's still there...

[00:32:16] Yeah...

[00:32:16] Um...

[00:32:17] There's a story I want to share with you...

[00:32:21] So...

[00:32:22] A couple of years ago...

[00:32:24] We had a...

[00:32:26] Lady go missing...

[00:32:27] On one of our back roads...

[00:32:29] You know...

[00:32:30] She got in a vehicle accident...

[00:32:33] And...

[00:32:34] And here she probably had some head trauma...

[00:32:36] But she was with some people...

[00:32:38] And they ended up walking out...

[00:32:40] And made their way to...

[00:32:42] A store that had a payphone...

[00:32:44] You know...

[00:32:46] And...

[00:32:46] They made a phone call to our dispatch...

[00:32:49] This is when I was a police officer...

[00:32:52] And...

[00:32:52] Told us about the accident...

[00:32:54] And told us that there was still one person missing...

[00:32:57] So...

[00:32:57] We rushed out there...

[00:32:59] We found the accident scene...

[00:33:02] Uh...

[00:33:02] Made sure that...

[00:33:03] We started searching the area...

[00:33:06] Uh...

[00:33:06] I drove up and down the road...

[00:33:08] Just to make sure that...

[00:33:09] Maybe she might have been walking...

[00:33:11] Uh...

[00:33:11] We didn't find nothing...

[00:33:14] A couple officers stayed...

[00:33:15] Because this was the middle of the night...

[00:33:16] When we got the phone call...

[00:33:18] Uh...

[00:33:20] And...

[00:33:21] You know that...

[00:33:22] That search...

[00:33:23] Unfortunately...

[00:33:24] We had a lady go missing...

[00:33:27] Unfortunately...

[00:33:28] Unfortunately...

[00:33:29] Um...

[00:33:31] Unfortunately...

[00:33:31] No, that lady...

[00:33:32] We didn't...

[00:33:33] We found her...

[00:33:34] She was...

[00:33:35] She had passed on...

[00:33:36] From dehydration...

[00:33:38] But the weird thing about it is...

[00:33:39] When...

[00:33:40] We set up an area to...

[00:33:44] Uh...

[00:33:45] Like base camp...

[00:33:46] Uh-huh...

[00:33:48] Um...

[00:33:49] One of these washes that went south...

[00:33:51] Again towards our...

[00:33:53] That...

[00:33:53] That's...

[00:33:53] That's...

[00:33:54] That's...

[00:33:54] That's...

[00:33:54] Mount Turnbull...

[00:33:55] We found foot tracks...

[00:33:58] And we...

[00:33:59] I knew it was hers...

[00:34:00] And I reported to my captain...

[00:34:03] Told him...

[00:34:04] Say...

[00:34:04] Hey...

[00:34:04] I found some foot tracks...

[00:34:06] And family members also seen it...

[00:34:08] Said...

[00:34:08] There's foot tracks going south...

[00:34:10] But he...

[00:34:12] Uh...

[00:34:13] Made it known that...

[00:34:14] Everybody's supposed to stay...

[00:34:16] Where the vehicle is at...

[00:34:17] And search north...

[00:34:18] From the wreck...

[00:34:20] But...

[00:34:20] I kept on telling him...

[00:34:22] Foot tracks are going south...

[00:34:25] Uh...

[00:34:26] He kept on telling me...

[00:34:27] Hey...

[00:34:28] You're tired...

[00:34:28] Just go home...

[00:34:30] But I remember right before I went home...

[00:34:32] I went to go check out those foot tracks...

[00:34:33] One more time...

[00:34:35] But...

[00:34:36] Ten men...

[00:34:36] Uh...

[00:34:36] Ten feet...

[00:34:38] Away from the foot tracks...

[00:34:40] Was another set of foot tracks...

[00:34:42] And this one had a bigger stride...

[00:34:45] The foot tracks were probably about...

[00:34:49] Maybe six feet apart...

[00:34:52] Oh...

[00:34:53] And...

[00:34:55] The...

[00:34:56] Indents and the...

[00:34:57] The...

[00:34:58] The imprints were...

[00:34:59] A lot more...

[00:35:01] Uh...

[00:35:01] Deeper...

[00:35:02] And...

[00:35:03] It was uh...

[00:35:04] Like...

[00:35:05] Wow...

[00:35:06] Bigger foot...

[00:35:08] So I brought that up to...

[00:35:12] The...

[00:35:12] My shift was over...

[00:35:14] So I brought...

[00:35:14] One of the...

[00:35:15] The day shift officers told me...

[00:35:16] Hey...

[00:35:17] There's a...

[00:35:17] There's foot tracks going south...

[00:35:19] And there's another set...

[00:35:20] So we might be looking for...

[00:35:22] Two people...

[00:35:23] Instead of one...

[00:35:26] But...

[00:35:26] They disregarded...

[00:35:27] Disregarded...

[00:35:28] But...

[00:35:28] When we found...

[00:35:30] That person that was...

[00:35:33] Out there...

[00:35:34] Probably three miles away from...

[00:35:36] Where the wreck was...

[00:35:38] One thing that still bothers me to this day is...

[00:35:41] There was no crows...

[00:35:44] There was no buzzers flying around...

[00:35:47] And...

[00:35:48] There was no coyote...

[00:35:50] Traps around...

[00:35:54] And...

[00:35:54] This person was...

[00:35:57] In a wash or a gully...

[00:35:59] And there was an overhang...

[00:36:01] Right next to her...

[00:36:03] Uh...

[00:36:04] I remember looking...

[00:36:05] Where that...

[00:36:07] The overhang was...

[00:36:10] And all the weeds...

[00:36:12] And brush was pushed down...

[00:36:14] Like something was sitting there...

[00:36:17] And...

[00:36:17] Along the side of the wash...

[00:36:20] Looked like something was...

[00:36:22] Hanging and just rubbing against the...

[00:36:24] Side of the wash...

[00:36:25] But there was a bunch of...

[00:36:27] The side...

[00:36:29] That...

[00:36:30] Of...

[00:36:30] That sand and rock...

[00:36:32] That was piled up...

[00:36:34] And...

[00:36:35] I was thinking...

[00:36:36] Whatever...

[00:36:36] That second pair of tracks...

[00:36:38] That I had seen...

[00:36:39] I wonder if it was...

[00:36:42] There watching over her...

[00:36:47] And...

[00:36:47] Kept...

[00:36:48] Like all the...

[00:36:50] The birds and...

[00:36:52] The...

[00:36:53] Pressures away from the body...

[00:36:56] Oh yeah...

[00:36:56] That's something that I was wondering...

[00:37:01] Wow...

[00:37:04] Geez...

[00:37:04] That poor lady probably had a...

[00:37:06] Hell of a journey that day...

[00:37:08] Geez...

[00:37:08] Yeah...

[00:37:11] Yeah...

[00:37:12] I mean...

[00:37:15] That was...

[00:37:15] It was sad...

[00:37:16] I mean...

[00:37:17] I...

[00:37:18] The family...

[00:37:24] It was just something sad to experience...

[00:37:26] But...

[00:37:28] One thing I can say is...

[00:37:30] At least family had closure...

[00:37:33] Mm-hmm...

[00:37:33] Knowing that...

[00:37:35] We had founder...

[00:37:38] Yeah...

[00:37:41] Yeah...

[00:37:42] Geez...

[00:37:43] But it probably was...

[00:37:44] You know...

[00:37:45] Yeah...

[00:37:46] Probably...

[00:37:50] Geez...

[00:37:50] Makes you wish she would have just...

[00:37:53] Stepped in and carried her to safety...

[00:37:57] Yeah...

[00:37:58] But probably just...

[00:37:59] Did what it...

[00:38:00] Thought it should and...

[00:38:01] You know...

[00:38:03] At least helped like that...

[00:38:07] Yeah...

[00:38:07] Cause...

[00:38:07] That's the same area where...

[00:38:10] And like I...

[00:38:11] Tell my...

[00:38:11] My TikTok stories...

[00:38:14] Wünschst du dir jemanden, der dich versteht wie kein anderer?

[00:38:17] Jemand, der deine Wünsche wahr werden lässt...

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[00:39:10] The hairy man, it's in that same area.

[00:39:13] The tall hairy man is what my grandma used to call it.

[00:39:17] Well, yeah. Tell everybody about your TikTok page, too.

[00:39:22] And your podcast, too.

[00:39:25] Okay. Well, me and my cousin, we started up a podcast and we started doing it called Paranormal Reservation.

[00:39:33] And there was another one that we started, Destination Reservation.

[00:39:39] Experiences that we went through, being first responders, myself being law enforcement and my cousin doing security.

[00:39:52] We also used to be firefighters here in the community.

[00:39:57] And we're going back to it.

[00:39:59] My cousin just recently got reapplied and got hired back on with the fire department.

[00:40:06] I'm heading back to fire school starting next month and hopefully be back on the fire department.

[00:40:12] So I'm not done being a first responder.

[00:40:16] I still got a couple of years of being in.

[00:40:18] I'm going to put it to good use.

[00:40:20] Yeah.

[00:40:22] And but yeah, that's our podcast is Paranormal Reservation.

[00:40:26] And my TikTok.

[00:40:28] I recently changed it to.

[00:40:32] Had it res, res doubt that.

[00:40:35] So if you guys want to listen, I just started recently telling stories.

[00:40:40] Every day I'm at work doing security.

[00:40:46] And yeah, just have a listen to it.

[00:40:49] I hope you enjoy.

[00:40:51] Yeah, there's some good stories in there.

[00:40:52] I was watching a few of those.

[00:40:55] You know, I listened to a couple of your guys' podcasts and then watched a few of your TikToks.

[00:41:00] This kind of comes on my For You page now.

[00:41:03] Yeah, there's some good stories out of you guys.

[00:41:06] Check it out.

[00:41:06] It's Tatted Res Dad, right?

[00:41:10] Yeah, Tatted Out Res Dad.

[00:41:12] Tatted Out Res Dad.

[00:41:14] Yeah.

[00:41:15] Yeah, check it out.

[00:41:16] It's a good one.

[00:41:17] Same with the podcast.

[00:41:18] It's funny.

[00:41:19] These guys really joke around on there a lot.

[00:41:23] That's a good one.

[00:41:25] I know.

[00:41:26] We said, my cousin used to get, because he used to get all the, that people messaging him.

[00:41:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:41:34] And he said that loud.

[00:41:35] There was Tom.

[00:41:35] I said, man, you guys are stupid crazy.

[00:41:37] Ha ha ha ha.

[00:41:39] You guys made me laugh.

[00:41:40] And some people messaged him and he'll say, yeah, I guess we scared some people.

[00:41:46] And they said, they're scared to drive at night listening to us.

[00:41:49] Ha ha ha.

[00:41:50] That's how it gets, man.

[00:41:51] You start getting freaked out when you hear some of these stories.

[00:41:54] Jeez.

[00:41:55] Hey, how about little people?

[00:41:58] Do you have stories about them?

[00:42:00] Oh, yeah.

[00:42:02] Oh.

[00:42:02] So my grandma lives like outside of one of the communities, Bylas.

[00:42:09] There's this road called Telva Road.

[00:42:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:12] And she lived out there by herself for years.

[00:42:16] And I said, go stay with her during the summertime just to keep her company or whenever she wanted somebody to help her out.

[00:42:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:27] So she has a routine.

[00:42:29] Every morning she would get up, take care of her dogs, feed her chickens and ducks, and take care of her horse.

[00:42:39] So I heard her getting up.

[00:42:41] So I started getting ready.

[00:42:43] And then I could hear her walking out the front door and the next night I was here yelling, ah, was it? Was it? Get out of here.

[00:42:51] So I got scared thinking something was, or someone was out there bothering her chickens or trying to take her horse.

[00:43:03] And I came running out the side door and she was facing towards her chicken coop.

[00:43:10] So I turned towards the chicken coop and I had to, you know, wipe my eyes real good and try to focus.

[00:43:18] And I just stood there in disbelief.

[00:43:22] And inside the chicken coop, I seen this, I want to say a little man, maybe about two feet tall, wearing like a loin cloth.

[00:43:38] Real black hair, holding a chicken egg like it was a basketball.

[00:43:46] And there was a second one standing outside the chicken coop, same, looked the same way.

[00:43:54] He had two eggs, one under each arm.

[00:44:00] And I was just standing there like, what? Am I really seeing this?

[00:44:05] And they start talking to each other.

[00:44:08] But I couldn't really understand what they're saying.

[00:44:10] Then my grandma was just yelling at them, said, go chase them out.

[00:44:13] And I was like, what they, what they come at me?

[00:44:20] So I started yelling, go on, what's that?

[00:44:24] And what's that is an Apache scene, no, go on, get out of here.

[00:44:30] Geez.

[00:44:31] So I started yelling that.

[00:44:32] And that one that's carrying the two eggs just takes off running and is right towards the river.

[00:44:39] The one that's inside the chicken coop starts climbing up, gets onto the top and climbs like a little ways down and he drops to the ground and takes off running.

[00:44:49] I was like, oh, dang.

[00:44:51] That's just something that I thought I'd never see.

[00:44:57] Geez, do they look like little natives?

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:02] My grandma said they always come around and steal from her, even going to her house and steal stuff inside her house.

[00:45:14] Geez, do you ever kind of have an idea of where they run to?

[00:45:17] Like, where do they go, I wonder?

[00:45:22] The way they ran is towards the river and me and my brothers, we're, we go down there, but we always hear something moving around, you know, because it's real thick, you know, salt cedar.

[00:45:34] It's like, you know, you watch these movies in the jungle and these military guys are going through how thick it is.

[00:45:40] Yeah.

[00:45:41] And it's just like that was, you know, crawl through time up and walk sideways through these trees.

[00:45:50] It's hard to see and I always hear something running and it's real low to the ground, like real close, like, like a baby runs.

[00:46:02] Oh, geez.

[00:46:06] Geez, they're probably just hole up in there then, huh?

[00:46:09] Yeah.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:10] But there, there, there, there's been tribal members saying that they found some campsites up in the mountains.

[00:46:18] Cause we have an area, we live in a desert area, but when you go north, you come into a Ponderosa time force.

[00:46:28] We call it point point of pints.

[00:46:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:33] And along the Mogollon Rim, I have some buddies and some family members that are forestry and these are that do training.

[00:46:44] And they said they used to get drop off in certain areas and that the hike, hike out or find another area to get picked up.

[00:46:51] And they used to say they, they found camp sites, small little huts and small fire pits and like small dishes.

[00:47:03] And along the, the cliffs of the Mogollon Rim where point of pints at, there's a lot of, um, cave dwellings, uh, doors that I have to get down on all fours to crawl inside and look around.

[00:47:19] Uh-oh.

[00:47:21] I've, I've seen them.

[00:47:23] Unfortunately, there used to be some that was close to the road and, you know, a lot of these people now, they're not too respectful about things.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:35] And some destroyed it.

[00:47:37] Oh, geez.

[00:47:41] Geez, an art tribe, they, they're typically about a foot tall and same thing.

[00:47:47] Yeah.

[00:47:47] They just look like little natives and, you know, they're not, they're not funny looking like disproportionate, like big head or, you know, they're just like us, but small foot tall.

[00:47:57] Yeah.

[00:47:58] And, uh, you know, there are people like, you know, I've even offered stuff to them, you know, just when I'm out praying and I'm putting out offerings, I'll even include them in those offerings.

[00:48:09] And some people, geez, it's kind of make little clothes for them too.

[00:48:13] Little, um, you know, like little buckskin clothes and some of these guys, even, you know, that have the rights to make pipes, it's kind of make them little pipes too.

[00:48:22] Yeah.

[00:48:22] Oh, of course.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:23] They, they offer to them too.

[00:48:25] And they're, they're pretty, uh, you know, our way there's, they got medicine, you know, there's old stories about them giving, giving people medicine and stuff like that.

[00:48:36] And, uh, you know, one of these guys, um, uh, one of these holy men in our tribe, he, he always had one hanging around his house.

[00:48:44] Another guy who wasn't into the ceremonies or nothing, but he had one that kind of stayed there with him too.

[00:48:51] And same with one of my buddies, uh, one of his friends he grew up with, there was one that stayed at their house.

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:58] Yeah.

[00:49:01] That's, that's something.

[00:49:03] It is.

[00:49:04] They're, they're everywhere, man.

[00:49:05] They're everywhere.

[00:49:06] Yeah.

[00:49:08] Yeah.

[00:49:09] After I told that story on Tik Tok and I got people from the East coast to the West coast and from South up to North talking about it saying, yeah, we've got them here.

[00:49:21] And they're in our area too.

[00:49:23] It was like, man, they are all over the place.

[00:49:26] Yeah.

[00:49:27] I remember, um, geez, it was, it was actually in the news.

[00:49:31] I want to say it was in, uh, oh boy, somewhere overseas in Europe, somewhere like it is.

[00:49:37] For some reason I want to say it was in Ireland, somewhere over there.

[00:49:41] They were, they were, uh, building this, this tunnel for cars or trains or something.

[00:49:49] And they kept, they kept saying like, you know, people just kept leaving.

[00:49:53] They'd head out for the day.

[00:49:54] And I'm like, why are you guys leaving?

[00:49:57] And I can't remember the word they used for them, but the, you know, what they were saying was those little people, they're in there and they're raising hell with us.

[00:50:04] So we're just going to head out.

[00:50:06] Yeah.

[00:50:06] They kept messing with them.

[00:50:08] They were in there digging and those little people kept, they must've not have wanted them there or something, but yeah, it was in the news.

[00:50:15] Yeah.

[00:50:16] So they're everywhere, you know?

[00:50:19] Yeah.

[00:50:19] I want to doubt it.

[00:50:21] Cause a lot of the, I like talking with people from different nationalities and sharing them what they, what their beliefs are and their, their, their folklores.

[00:50:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:36] And just, just, just, I like to keep an open mind and that's why I'm glad you're sharing a lot of your, your culture with myself.

[00:50:47] Just like here in, here in Patulon, uh, we have, um, our ceremonies too, called a sunrise dance.

[00:50:56] Oh yeah.

[00:50:57] Yeah.

[00:50:57] We have our mountain spirits.

[00:50:59] They come down and they dance with us.

[00:51:02] Hey.

[00:51:05] I know a lot of people say they look scary, but they're, they're, they're for protection.

[00:51:10] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:12] No.

[00:51:13] Uh, there's five dancers, uh, four represent, uh, the four directions and the fifth one's just, uh, one that chases off or warns off the evil spirits.

[00:51:28] Yeah.

[00:51:29] Geez, that's pretty cool, man.

[00:51:31] I'd like to see one of those cause I always hear about them too, but I, I've never seen one.

[00:51:36] Like, like with ours, we can't film it or anything, you know, or take pictures there.

[00:51:40] Yeah.

[00:51:41] That's just kind of.

[00:51:42] We're not supposed to, but, but some people do, you know, some people just want to put it out there and so they can get the review.

[00:51:50] But I, I, I don't, I don't care.

[00:51:53] I don't, I don't like to take pictures.

[00:51:55] The only pictures I keep is in my, my memory.

[00:51:59] Yeah.

[00:51:59] I had a, uh, a guy on here.

[00:52:02] He wanted to remain anonymous, but he, he was telling a story about one of these, um, these outsiders come in and they were, they were okay to be at the Sundance that year.

[00:52:12] But yeah, this one girl start kind of really pushing it and she was, uh, recording them when these two guys, him and one of his elders were talking and he was teaching them things, you know, basically, uh, he was given rights and then he was explaining those rights to him and how did, how he goes about doing that, that part of whatever they were talking about.

[00:52:34] And, uh, and, uh, this lady, she started videoing them and she ended up going to town to, you know, people were all going to town to get water and whatever.

[00:52:45] And she ended up, you know, driving her vehicle in there.

[00:52:47] Well here, she never came back.

[00:52:50] They're all wondering where she's at, but she sent word back.

[00:52:54] She called that house and somebody got word back to that encampment that she doesn't remember how she got there or what happened.

[00:53:04] But here she wakes up in a, you know, we're in Montana, Idaho, south of us.

[00:53:08] She woke up in a place called Moscow, Idaho.

[00:53:12] Dang.

[00:53:13] And she, she come to and she was asking them like, where am I?

[00:53:16] And they're just looking at her crazy.

[00:53:17] Like, what do you mean?

[00:53:19] Like you're in Moscow, Idaho.

[00:53:21] So, and she doesn't even know, like, well anyways, he, the guy, um, ultimately running the, the Sundance, he told her, um, you know, you're going to have to destroy that, that tape or you're going to have to send it to me so I can destroy it.

[00:53:39] You know, if you keep it, it's just going to keep on like this.

[00:53:42] And we told you don't do that.

[00:53:44] We told you.

[00:53:46] And, uh, you know, you, you get rid of that, send it to me or, or destroy it.

[00:53:50] But you're never welcome back here again.

[00:53:53] So.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] Yeah.

[00:53:57] Yeah.

[00:53:58] Well, some people have to, they have to learn the hard way.

[00:54:03] Oh yeah.

[00:54:04] Yeah.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:06] You don't mess with that stuff, you know, and they're telling you what, what you can and can't do.

[00:54:11] You don't, you don't disobey that.

[00:54:13] They're telling you for a reason, you know, it's usually to protect you.

[00:54:17] Yeah.

[00:54:18] Yeah.

[00:54:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:54:20] Yeah, that's true.

[00:54:22] Uh, like a lot of, a lot of here, um, during the sunrise dances, a lot of these medicine

[00:54:29] men, they'll actually get up from the crowd and tell everybody not to record no pictures.

[00:54:36] This is sacred to us.

[00:54:38] But you know, there's somebody that's always off in the corner, has their phone out and

[00:54:44] still recording.

[00:54:45] Hmm.

[00:54:52] Yeah.

[00:54:52] Yeah.

[00:54:52] You could really ask for a, you could really step in the mud doing that, you know?

[00:54:58] Yeah.

[00:55:00] Yeah.

[00:55:00] Cause you don't know what will come upon you.

[00:55:03] If they say no, then there's something sacred and they don't want to, they shouldn't be messing

[00:55:09] around well.

[00:55:10] Cause if it was strong medicine back in the day, it's still going to be strong medicine

[00:55:17] today.

[00:55:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:20] Yeah.

[00:55:21] It kind of reminds me, um, the other day, was it last night?

[00:55:25] I want to say it was last night.

[00:55:26] Uh, I was listening to one of these guys from back home talk, uh, Ethan Renincrane.

[00:55:32] He's, he was on a podcast too.

[00:55:34] Yeah.

[00:55:34] He was, he was on there.

[00:55:35] He's got a live and I was just listening to him kind of being bored.

[00:55:39] And one of my friends, uh, that grew up right next to me out on the, out on the crick out

[00:55:45] in the country, he, um, he was on there talking and I, I kept thinking about this time when,

[00:55:51] um, you know, we were just small here.

[00:55:54] I think, I think I'm only about three years older than them, but when you're kids, that's,

[00:55:58] that's a pretty big gap, you know, in, in age.

[00:56:01] But, uh, I remember there was, he was sitting there at that sweat lodge, but he had to watch

[00:56:10] the rocks, the fire.

[00:56:12] And when they called for those rocks, he had to bring them in.

[00:56:15] That was kind of his duties there at that sweat.

[00:56:18] And, uh, you know, usually I'd go get his older brother who was my age, my classmate

[00:56:24] and we'd go mess around, you know, go down that creek, go swimming, you know, something.

[00:56:29] Yeah.

[00:56:29] Well, he was, I remember he was the only one there.

[00:56:32] And so I kind of went down there and I, I don't remember what we were going to do.

[00:56:36] I think we were going to go hunt.

[00:56:37] And so I went down there and I, I sat by him and I was just waiting for him, you know,

[00:56:42] and figured, well, if he needs any help, I'll just help him.

[00:56:45] I just sat there with him and it was just quiet cause they were singing in there, you know,

[00:56:49] and we were just sitting there to try not to make noise, you know, be respectful to that,

[00:56:54] to that sweat.

[00:56:55] And, uh, seeing, you know, we just start hearing, um, I don't know how else to describe it,

[00:57:01] but, uh, like, uh, uh, an eagle was speaking black feet.

[00:57:08] It was like a, that bird sound.

[00:57:11] It was really a, so like you and I, when we talk, you can tell that we weigh, you know,

[00:57:16] we, we have some weight to us. There's, we're not like 10 pounds.

[00:57:19] You can tell we're much heavier than that.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:22] And that's how it spoke.

[00:57:23] But it had a bird voice and it was speaking black feet really fast.

[00:57:28] And I was just thinking about that.

[00:57:31] Um, you know, sometimes those helpers like that, whoever's running that sweat,

[00:57:34] will have a spirit coming in. It'll talk.

[00:57:37] And, uh, I was thinking about that cause Rick or what's with his name?

[00:57:43] Cause my buddy was in that, in that live. And we were, we were talking,

[00:57:47] where I was thinking about bringing it up and I thought, ah, I better not.

[00:57:50] There's too many people in here. I don't really know.

[00:57:53] So I better not put him on the spot.

[00:57:56] Yeah.

[00:57:57] I mean, I've had that happen when I was a kid.

[00:58:02] Uh, my grandma gave me a name.

[00:58:05] She started calling me Shush, uh, Shush and Apache's bear.

[00:58:09] Hmm.

[00:58:11] What happened was like I told you, uh, I used to go out and stay with my grandma a lot.

[00:58:18] And one, one day we'd start, she wanted to butcher a cow.

[00:58:23] So I helped her butcher a cow.

[00:58:26] I was probably, I had to been like maybe 12, 13 years old.

[00:58:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:58:33] And after we got done skinning it, uh, took the meat off and, uh, kept all the intestines cause we were in a cooking later.

[00:58:42] And we got the hooks, uh, you know, from the knees on down to the hooks, we got that off.

[00:58:49] And my grandma tells me, hey, let's go take these legs to my brother back in town.

[00:58:55] And told me to throw them back in the truck.

[00:58:57] So I did.

[00:58:57] And we started heading back into town.

[00:59:03] When, we passed this dump.

[00:59:06] And I saw like this brown fur that was on the other side of the fishing wagon that was sitting out on the other side of the, that, that dump area.

[00:59:18] And I told my grandma, I said, Grandma, look, there's a dog over there.

[00:59:22] She said, you want to give it a leg?

[00:59:24] But yeah, I'll go take a leg to it.

[00:59:26] So she stopped.

[00:59:29] And I get out, grab one of the legs.

[00:59:32] And I started making my way towards the dog.

[00:59:35] And my grandma was just walking after me, telling me to be careful.

[00:59:39] It might be a wild dog.

[00:59:41] It might bite me.

[00:59:45] So, as soon as I get to that station wagon, I turned the corner.

[00:59:50] And as soon as I turned the corner, there was a brown bear sitting there.

[00:59:57] And I stopped and I looked at it.

[01:00:00] And I remember telling me, I'm hungry.

[01:00:04] I told her, I have this.

[01:00:07] Do you want this leg?

[01:00:09] And it says, yeah.

[01:00:11] So I reached out.

[01:00:13] I offered the leg to it.

[01:00:15] I remember seeing its paws come up, grab the leg and pull it toward it.

[01:00:20] And it started like eating like a person.

[01:00:26] And it looks up at me again, says, I'm thirsty.

[01:00:30] And I told her, I said, my grandma has water in her truck.

[01:00:36] So I'll be right back.

[01:00:37] So I took off running.

[01:00:39] My grandma's still walking down.

[01:00:42] And I didn't even see a month worth it.

[01:00:44] I just ran past her, ran to the truck.

[01:00:47] This always keeps down with the wall.

[01:00:51] I went back there, grabbed that gallon.

[01:00:55] And you know, back then, they had those hubcaps that were like a bowl, right?

[01:01:01] Yeah.

[01:01:03] Yeah.

[01:01:03] I found one of those.

[01:01:05] And I started running back down.

[01:01:07] And as soon as I caught my grandma, she got where the front end of the station wagon was and she stops.

[01:01:15] And then she stops me.

[01:01:16] She tells me back up slowly.

[01:01:18] And I said, no, he's thirsty.

[01:01:22] She said, what do you mean?

[01:01:23] He told me he's hungry.

[01:01:25] So I gave him the leg.

[01:01:27] And now he says he's thirsty.

[01:01:29] So I'm gonna give it water.

[01:01:31] She looked at me and said, is talking to you?

[01:01:33] And I told her, yeah.

[01:01:35] I said, well, if he's talking to you and tells you that he wants this, then give it to him.

[01:01:42] So I put that hubcap down.

[01:01:45] I poured the water in there and started backing away.

[01:01:50] And my grandma tells me, go run back to the truck and get the other legs.

[01:01:54] So I ran back, grabbed the other three legs, ran back down to where this brown bear was.

[01:02:03] And I put the legs down in front of it and it looked at me and told me, thank you.

[01:02:10] My grandma just tells me, come on, let's go.

[01:02:14] Let's let it enjoy its food.

[01:02:18] Maybe it was starving.

[01:02:20] Now they'll have enough strength to go back to the mountains.

[01:02:25] So we went back to the truck and we went back to her house.

[01:02:29] And my grandma, I remember asking me, said, did you really talk to that bear?

[01:02:37] And I said, yeah.

[01:02:40] And she tells me, you know, you have the gift of your great grandpa.

[01:02:45] He used to be able to talk to animals too.

[01:02:52] Dang, that's really cool, man.

[01:02:55] Yeah.

[01:02:56] After that she started calling me Shush.

[01:02:59] I remember my dad asking my grandma, it's my mom's mom.

[01:03:05] And he asked her, so why do you call him Shush?

[01:03:08] And see, my grandma told my dad what happened.

[01:03:13] After that he's like, okay, well, I called him Bear then.

[01:03:17] So they started calling me Bear.

[01:03:20] Do you think that was a spirit?

[01:03:23] Yeah.

[01:03:24] Yeah, so do I.

[01:03:29] It's funny because when I grew up, I still went to go visit my grandma.

[01:03:36] I used to take off into the mountains.

[01:03:38] And that was my special spot, just being out there away from everybody.

[01:03:42] Mm-hmm.

[01:03:43] And I remember one day I came across a mountain lion and all I had with me was just a knife.

[01:03:50] And I was thinking, man, I'm going to be in for the fight of my life.

[01:03:54] And next year that mountain lion just put his head down and turned away and started walking off.

[01:03:59] And I was like, man, it got scared of my knife.

[01:04:02] No, I'm bad.

[01:04:05] I chased out mountain lion.

[01:04:08] And I heard something breathing real hard behind me.

[01:04:12] I turned it down and there was a brown bear inside behind me.

[01:04:16] Oh.

[01:04:18] I was thinking, oh, okay.

[01:04:21] And then it just looked at me and started walking away.

[01:04:25] Then not one word, just walked away.

[01:04:30] Or I thought maybe that's why I'm supposed to fight, but it didn't.

[01:04:37] It got your back on that one.

[01:04:39] Yeah.

[01:04:40] You know how they say that they repaid his debt?

[01:04:44] Oh, yeah.

[01:04:45] Yeah.

[01:04:48] Geez, that's a cool story.

[01:04:50] He he he.

[01:04:53] You know, in our tribe I remember when I was younger,

[01:04:59] I was going to our community college at the time.

[01:05:02] It must have been about in 2004.

[01:05:05] And somebody in our tribe had got mauled by a bear.

[01:05:11] Yeah.

[01:05:11] And that's really unheard of in our tribe.

[01:05:14] And I remember these old ladies talking and they said,

[01:05:20] they said, you know that that person got mauled because those game wardens,

[01:05:24] they were they were shooting those bears and they were killing them.

[01:05:29] And they weren't they weren't supposed to be doing that.

[01:05:31] They were supposed to just tranquilize them and bring them.

[01:05:33] And, you know, bring them away and drop them off and leave them, you know, like alive.

[01:05:41] We're not supposed to do that.

[01:05:43] And it's that other lady said, yeah.

[01:05:45] She says we made a treaty with those bears long time ago.

[01:05:48] Yeah.

[01:05:49] And we agreed that we would never harm them and they'd never harm us.

[01:05:53] She said, I was just listening to them because they're in my same class and it was during break.

[01:05:59] And they knew I was listening because I was looking over at them.

[01:06:02] They'd look over at me, too.

[01:06:03] And I was just, you know, really paying attention.

[01:06:06] And that other lady said, yep, we're not supposed to do that.

[01:06:10] And I've heard that other places, too.

[01:06:12] But, you know, come to think of it, I should probably ask somebody at the at those ceremonies more about that.

[01:06:21] Yeah.

[01:06:23] Here, my grandma, I should say, those are your great, great parents, grandparents, but your ancestors.

[01:06:30] When we leave this world, our spirit becomes the bear.

[01:06:37] That's what Jesus is about me.

[01:06:40] Well, Jesus, if you ever seen a bear and it was skinted out, they look like humans.

[01:06:46] Yeah.

[01:06:47] Yeah, they look like humans.

[01:06:49] Kind of creepy.

[01:06:50] Yeah, I mean, that one, that one I came face to face with.

[01:06:55] You know, the eyes, I can still remember the eyes that just, that looked like a person.

[01:07:08] Jeez, I don't know what I would have done.

[01:07:09] I'm just trying to envision that.

[01:07:10] Like, oh, I would have been scared.

[01:07:14] Yeah, and I was a kid, too.

[01:07:16] Yeah.

[01:07:20] Yeah, I don't know what I would have done.

[01:07:22] I probably just froze.

[01:07:24] Oh, but you were meant to see that, though, so it was different.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:29] Yeah.

[01:07:29] I mean, I thought I'd seen a dog.

[01:07:31] And now when I think about it, I say, man, what kind of dog is you can see over a station

[01:07:38] wagon?

[01:07:39] Mm-hmm.

[01:07:40] Hmm.

[01:07:42] Yeah, I remember, like, when we were first talking, the, uh, that horseman you were talking

[01:07:48] about, here's this other guy on the podcast, too.

[01:07:50] Yeah.

[01:07:51] So, if you listeners are curious, we're back somewhere, uh, Arlen Potts tells a story about

[01:07:56] seeing a horseman.

[01:07:58] But, um, Barry, the way he described it was, um, it looked everything like a regular horse.

[01:08:04] Yeah.

[01:08:04] Like, everything.

[01:08:05] Yeah.

[01:08:05] But it was walking biped, and oh, it just kind of had a vest on.

[01:08:09] Hey.

[01:08:10] Some kind of, some kind of a vest.

[01:08:11] He said it looked like a black leather vest, if I remember right.

[01:08:14] That's what he said.

[01:08:15] And it was this walk.

[01:08:16] He was a little kid.

[01:08:17] Yeah.

[01:08:18] He was playing around, kind of further away from his house, kind of playing around.

[01:08:21] It used to be like this old junkyard over there.

[01:08:24] It's not there anymore.

[01:08:25] But, that's where that thing, he said he had this feeling to look up.

[01:08:29] He looked up and he seen it walk, and it didn't even look at him.

[01:08:32] Yeah.

[01:08:32] Just kept walking into that junkyard.

[01:08:36] Yeah.

[01:08:37] Yeah.

[01:08:37] He said it was kind of standing up.

[01:08:39] And just, just when I was at that, uh, last, um, Ocon or Sundance, um, we were telling

[01:08:46] stories that night, too.

[01:08:48] And another guy that, that lives out there, he, he's seen something.

[01:08:52] Um, him and this other guy he was with would be his brother-in-law.

[01:08:58] They were, they were driving kind of down toward the river, um, in the direction of the river.

[01:09:06] But, across the river, there's these hills.

[01:09:09] And up there, he seen this thing.

[01:09:12] He said it was running funny.

[01:09:14] He said just the way it was running, they, because they stopped and they were looking at

[01:09:18] it.

[01:09:19] Like, oh, look at that thing.

[01:09:20] Like, I wonder, is that a bear?

[01:09:22] What is that?

[01:09:23] Yeah.

[01:09:23] They're just kind of, you know, really looking at it.

[01:09:26] And, and finally they, you know, they, they just kind of witnessed it.

[01:09:30] Well, they were trying to make sense of what they were seeing.

[01:09:32] They could see it.

[01:09:33] They were just trying to make sense of it.

[01:09:35] Here there was another herd of horses it was, it was running toward.

[01:09:40] Yeah.

[01:09:41] And, and those horses noticed it and their stud took off and went out and met that, that horse

[01:09:48] thing that was coming.

[01:09:49] Yeah.

[01:09:50] And when they met like that, that, that horse man, he stood up and he quit trying to run

[01:09:56] like that.

[01:09:56] He stood up, but he only had the, the rear half of a, of a horse.

[01:10:01] Um, from understanding his story, correct.

[01:10:05] The, it didn't have like the four legs.

[01:10:07] It just had the rear two and the top was a man, but it was running funny.

[01:10:11] He said, cause when it stood up, it stood up like it was, uh, like almost like it swung

[01:10:17] toward his jaw, like took a, a punch, you know, at his jaw and that, that stud reared

[01:10:23] its head back, like threw its head back and took off with those other horses and led them,

[01:10:29] led them away.

[01:10:30] But that thing went back down and start trotting down into this little coulee and it never

[01:10:35] came back out.

[01:10:37] Man.

[01:10:38] Yeah.

[01:10:39] There, there are stories of that horse man.

[01:10:41] It's really weird, but there are stories of that.

[01:10:45] My grandma said that cause my grandpa used to be a cowboy and help out, um, when they

[01:10:52] go around, do how, um, round up for branding.

[01:10:56] Mm.

[01:10:58] She said that my grandpa was out there towards, uh, our, our lake, St. Carlos Lake.

[01:11:05] And he was out looking for some stray cows.

[01:11:09] And when he, his horse just got spooked, bucked them off.

[01:11:14] So my grandpa, when he hit the ground, he got up and started getting mad at his horse.

[01:11:19] And I was saying, well, what's wrong with you?

[01:11:22] Why, why'd you do that?

[01:11:24] And he started walking through the horse and next to the other side, this, this other cowboy

[01:11:29] just walks out of nowhere.

[01:11:32] And I asked that cop, my grandpa on Apache, you know, like, hey, are you okay?

[01:11:36] You said you need any help.

[01:11:38] And my grandpa kind of, it was, had that uneasy feeling.

[01:11:43] Mm-hmm.

[01:11:45] And, and I started telling him, no, no, I'm okay.

[01:11:48] I'm, I'm okay.

[01:11:49] I, I can go walk over and get my horse myself.

[01:11:53] I said, cowboy's okay.

[01:11:55] I'll be walking in this direction if you need my help.

[01:12:00] And when my grandpa was walking through his boat and caught him by the reins, he turned

[01:12:05] and looked at the cowboy, you know, he had a cowboy, his shirt on, his hat.

[01:12:13] And he started looking down, he had his chaps.

[01:12:15] And when he looked down at his feet, he saw hooves instead of boots.

[01:12:21] Yeah.

[01:12:23] And he said that cowboy just walked into, walked into the mesquite and just disappeared.

[01:12:30] What kind of hooves were they?

[01:12:31] Like horse hooves?

[01:12:33] He said they, all he said was hooves.

[01:12:35] They just looked like hooves.

[01:12:37] I wonder if they were split or if they were, oh, that's interesting.

[01:12:41] Yeah.

[01:12:42] Yeah.

[01:12:44] Um, you know, I mentioned I was a police officer and, you know, there's a railroad tracks

[01:12:50] that are, yeah, train that goes through our reservation.

[01:12:53] Mm-hmm.

[01:12:54] It goes from one at the east end to the west end.

[01:12:59] So a couple of years ago, we had a couple of cars derailed just outside of one of our

[01:13:06] communities, a paradox.

[01:13:10] And I was one of the officers that responded and it showed up on the scene.

[01:13:14] And I'm talking to the doctor, or one of the doctors, he tells me, he said, you guys, that's

[01:13:20] a spooky land out here.

[01:13:23] And I left out and said, what are you talking about?

[01:13:25] He said, between here and the other town, it starts with the B. I told him, Pilots?

[01:13:35] And he said, yeah.

[01:13:36] So one night we're coming through and something was hitting our, the front, the head, the lead

[01:13:45] train, the locomotive, and it was hitting our, the cabin hard.

[01:13:52] So one of the, one of the guys I work with decides to walk out and he steps out on the

[01:13:58] side, starts shining his light.

[01:14:00] He said, he came back into the cab, bro, as fast as he could, this staff was right behind

[01:14:05] him.

[01:14:06] And I said, just make this thing go as fast as you can.

[01:14:10] I asked him, so what's going on?

[01:14:11] I said, just look out there, look out there.

[01:14:14] So he walked over to the window and shining a light.

[01:14:17] He said, there was a group of horsemen that were chasing after and throwing rocks to the

[01:14:23] locomotive.

[01:14:24] Hmm.

[01:14:27] And they had, they had four legs?

[01:14:30] Yeah.

[01:14:32] That's all he said was, they're a horseman.

[01:14:33] He said, they look like those Greek horses, those centaurs.

[01:14:37] Yeah.

[01:14:38] And I was like, man.

[01:14:39] He said, yeah.

[01:14:40] So after that, that conductor that had seen them, he said, he quit.

[01:14:46] So he doesn't want to, he told the company, I don't want to go through the reservation

[01:14:51] no more.

[01:14:51] He said that, that's some bad stuff that goes on out there.

[01:14:56] Oh, Christ.

[01:14:58] Oh, that would be pretty, that would be a hard pill to swallow, you know, especially somebody

[01:15:04] not from around there, not, you know, never heard of them.

[01:15:08] Oh, just to, just to see them like that.

[01:15:12] Wow.

[01:15:15] Okay.

[01:15:15] So Barry and I, we recorded a part two to this.

[01:15:19] And, uh, that part two is going to be a members only episode over on Patreon.

[01:15:24] So if you want to hear the second part of Barry's stories, come on over there, sign up for your

[01:15:29] account and, um, let's get on it that way.

[01:15:32] Let me, I took notes.

[01:15:33] Let me refer back to these in, in the part two, we talk about UFOs more about the horseman.

[01:15:40] Um, he talks about this hitchhiker and Bigfoot stories.

[01:15:44] So that's just a kind of overview of what we talk about on the, on the members only.

[01:15:49] So yeah, that was Barry from the San Carlos Apache reservation.

[01:15:55] Um, I really appreciate him coming on.

[01:15:58] And if you want to find out more, I mean, I had him mention it all the time in his, in

[01:16:04] his talks, but he's Apache storyteller.

[01:16:08] That's his name.

[01:16:09] Apache storyteller on Tik Tok.

[01:16:11] You can find a lot of his stories on Tik Tok.

[01:16:14] So yeah, check out Barry and, and Barry, thank you.

[01:16:17] Thank you for coming on.

[01:16:19] I really appreciate it.

[01:16:20] If we could do this again in a feature, let's do it, man.

[01:16:22] Yeah.

[01:16:24] All right, everybody.

[01:16:25] Until next time.

[01:16:35] Thank you.

[01:16:37] Thank you for listening to me.

[01:16:47] Thank you very much.

[01:16:49] Thank you.

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